Cellar Craft Bitter wine, fixable?

[annapolisDan]

Hello everyone,
I started batch of Cellar Craft Chateau du Pays last year that has been bulk aging since then. Every time I sample it, it seems quite bitter. It has some nice fruit to it, but the bitterness is unpleasant. I have two questions I thought the forum might be able to help with.

1. I've read a few sources that say the bitterness is a result of too much tannin in the wine and the way to resolve this is through fining. The recommendation is to use either egg whites or a PVPP fining agent. Has anyone had similar experience?
2. When I think of a tannic wine, I don't usually think of bitterness. I usually think of that dry mouth feel. Have I thought of tannin incorrectly all of these years?

I hate to throw this wine down the drain, but if I can't reduce some of the bitterness I might have. Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
-Dan

 

[jeepbabe]

I haven't made this kit but it sounds like it needs more time. If you want to dispose of it I can send you my address.

Seriously, I wouldn't dump it. Reds take more time so just be patient and you will be rewarded.

 

[Rocky]

Dan, totally agree with Jeepbabe, only dump wine as a last resort. You can always make a good wine vinegar if nothing else.

What was the initial SG and the current SG of the wine? When you say "bitter" tell us more what you mean; dry, sour, etc. What does it taste like? Lemons? Limes? Other? Has the wine been stabilized with K meta (if so, how many times over the past year?) and K sorbate? How about the color of the wine. Is it still a nice red or do you see tints of brown?

 

[annapolisDan]

Hi Rocky,
Thanks for the response. I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Starting SG was 1.100
2. Ending SG was 0.998
3. I'm having a tough describing what I think is bitter. It's not lemon, limes or sour. I think of it more as tonic water bitter.
4. I used the original k-meta pouch that came with the kit, adding as per instructions. Since then I have added 3 crushed campden tables every 90 days.
5. Sorbate was added as per instructions with the kit.
6. The color is a gorgeous deep ruby, no brown.

So, back to SO2...I bought the test kit (titration method) for free and total SO2. I've tested and found it to be 100 ppm, way too high. I splash racked twice yesterday to see of that would help. There was a small immediate change, I'll test again in a month or so. Hopefully it will be more reasonable.



I also notice a little CO2 on my tongue and nose, so I'm thinking it has not been properly degassed.


I wonder if the two combined (too much SO2 and CO2) would produce this bitterness.


jeepbabe, would you pay the shipping?



-Dan

 

[cpfan]

I also notice a little CO2 on my tongue and nose, so I'm thinking it has not been properly degassed.

I wonder if the two combined (too much SO2 and CO2) would produce this bitterness.

Dan...

When I saw the title of the thread, I thought CO2. Try allowing the wine to breathe before you drink it. Put some wine in a glass, and swirl it around for a few minutes, then try it again.

Steve

 

[wineh]

1. I'm having a tough describing what I think is bitter. It's not lemon, limes or sour. I think of it more as tonic water bitter..

So, back to SO2...I bought the test kit (titration method) for free and total SO2. I've tested and found it to be 100 ppm, way too high. I splash racked twice yesterday to see of that would help. There was a small immediate change, I'll test again in a month or so. Hopefully it will be more reasonable.

I also notice a little CO2 on my tongue and nose, so I'm thinking it has not been properly degassed.

I wonder if the two combined (too much SO2 and CO2) would produce this bitterness.
-Dan

Yep, that's likely the problem. If you can warm your wine up to the early to mid 70s, and stir the heck out of it, you will likely fix that problem.

 

[Rocky]

Totally agree. I think the problem from what you have said here is SO2. Get the temp up to the mid 70's and stir it thoroughly. You should be fine.

 

[annapolisDan]

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll definitely work on the CO2. When I first tried to remove the CO2 is was in the dead of winter last year. I suspect it was still too cold.

Hopefully mixing in some air this weekend will help remove some of the excess free SO2.

Some of the other reading that I've done suggests two things.

1. If there was still excess CO2 in the wine when I did the fining, it probably didn't work so well.
2. Some fining agents are better than others at removing bitterness. PVPP and gelatine seem to be the best.

I'll warm the wine up and try and remove the excess CO2. When I'm done I'll draw off a bottle and experiment with PVPP and gelatine.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. My discouragement has turned to hope.

-Dan

 

[DrJayman]

Dan-

Glad you didn't dump!!! I don't know exactly when you pitched, cleared and started bulking last year, but this is one of those "ugly ducklings." I started one of these last Feb, bulked a few months and then bottled by May maybe....

I had been really disappointed in the "status checks" I had made until maybe early this month. Instead of "meh", I am now raising eyebrows. This one will take close to a year (say that loosely based on bulk and bottle differences,) to turn into that "swan". You will be VERY happy with it by Fall or more so this time next year.

.....which is why you will find A LOT of posts of folks saying to send what you don't want their way! Keep the faith... and you might get another started.....

Jay

 

[annapolisDan]

Thanks Jay. Patience is doesn't cost anything, so I'll let it sit for a while and try bottling by mid-summer.

Thanks again for all of the responses.

-Dan

 

[tonyt]

Drjayman, how is your cc yakima syrah doing. When mine came out of barrel it tasted off. Added tannin and it got pretty good (I thought). I bottled in Jan and tasted in march to find it was full of gass. So i poured it into gallon jugs, degassed again and added kmet. Now its worse. May be oxidized. Or hopefully bottle shock. Packed it away out of site and mind. If not better by fall I have 28 bottles of merinate.