berry wine_to add or not add sulphites

[brendathebrewer]

I started my batch of Saskatoon (similar to blueberry) and chokecherry early October, used lalvin-e118 and pectic enzyme and touch of acid blend. sg 1090 start. racked to secondary and strained fruit (what a job it was a lot of fruit) after 9 days, put in cooler temperature, then after one week more racked again (was a lot of sediment). 3 weeks has now passed since then. looks like little sediment but feel to rack.

now, so many recommend using sulphites and or sorbate. I am open to this argument and could perhaps try part of it with (to really see if there is any difference).....

what are the recommended ways to proceed from here on it, I haven't checked sg but will once taking decision to rack/add..

the wine smells amazing!!!...full, rich, pure. at least in comparison to these two wine kits I am making although I am completely new to winemaking. I also feel there are no bad yeasts or bacteria in it as the berries were pure organic.

these three one gallon glass bottles sit now at a temperature of 58.

I am open to backsweetening or any tecniques to present nothing less than the best at the Christmas table in 2014.

 

[cpfan]

I'm not a berry wine make so don't want to recommend anything specific techniques or processes, but...

K-meta (potassium metabisulphite) is an anti-oxidant, sorta like a preservative. If drinking Christmas 2013, you could get away without using it. But if waiting till Christmas 2014, I strongly recommend adding K-meta.

If sweetening, you need to add K-meta and potassium sorbate to prevent re-fermentation (which can cause bottle bombs).

Steve

 

[salcoco]

Bacteria have no time limit. can happen in a instant. use K-meta now. if back sweetening add both kmeta and sorbate

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Why would you think that organic fruit doesnt have yeast and bacteria on it? Of course they do, they rot just like everything else. As far as adding metabisulfite and sorbates you should know why you would want to add them, not just that other people do for some reason. Metabisulfite kills or stuns wild yeast and bacteria and as mentioned above acts to help protect your wine from oxidation. The sorbates stop yeast from deviding so if you backsweeten it will stop them from refermenting if the wine is clear, but it wont stop a fermentation. We put sulfites on all of our berry wines, they got plenty of wild bacteria and yeasts on them, I just want my yeasts I add to eat the sugar. We recently planted some chokecherries, hoping I can make a batch of wine with our own one day. WVMJ

 

[ckvchestnut]

Keep us posted on how that tastes! I just planted 30 or 40 bushes this spring for eventual wine making but I guess it's going to be a long time before I'll be making any wine with those!

 

[brendathebrewer]

well I suppose I should add some of the metabisulphite......but only the minimum needed. how much should that be per gallon, and should I rack now and then add? could I add a partial amount then again at bottling? not sure how long I should bulk age it, when to rack etc..? my first ever batch!

I read that per 5 gallons should be 1/4 of a tsp metabisulphate. I am also currently making 2 wine kits and those packets they include are for sure a whopping 2 tsp or so. so, I didn't add the full amount in my first kit and have some spare, is this a pure version of the metabisulphite and can I use that instead?

I do understand that wild berries for sure have wild yeasts and bacteria. my thinking tells me that these should mainly be the "good" type as they are pure organic. I think the commercial berry and grape growers add a multitude of pesticides, fertilizers and when we get the wine-kits don't they also already have metabisulphite in them? my thinking tells me that with wine kits or commercial store berries I wouldn't trust some bad stuff can grow.

but, how did the romans or European cultures up till 100 years ago do it? they didn't have metabisulphate. did they drink it all early then in that case? my understanding from the research I have done is that a Frenchman went to Africa and due to temperature differences to france figured out how to make/use this stuff...since then its used commercially. so, how did the earlier cultures do it?

anyhow...help me with how I can use the minimum amount or amounts and when should I rack.

 

[Pumpkinman]

When making a kit, you need to follow the directions when adding meta, you can't just make up the rules as you go. Kits are made to lessen the chance of failure, they are balanced and tested in depth in labs to ensure that you get a decent wine.These packets are provided with the amount necessary for that particular kit, adding half the packet can be detrimental to the wine. The only exception is the sorbate, I only add if I intend to back sweeten.
Once you get a bunch of kits under your belt, you can start to follow Joe's wine kits tweaks.

 

[ckvchestnut]

If you have it in tablet form, (campden tablets it's 1 crushed tablet per gallon. If you have it in powder form it's 1/4 tsp for 5-6 gallons.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

We are concerned with bac or yeast that would contaminate our wines, they are what we want to knock out with the metabisulfites. We are not talking about things like what kind of EColi in on the fruit, the KM will get them all. Those natural yeasts will be just as happy ruining your wine as the ones grown in the most overfertilized heavily sprayed orchard. In our Wineyard we dont spray the berries or trees so far but next year we are going to have to start spraying some Surrond for fungus. We very much like the idea of just walking down to the trees and picking something and eating it right then and there or making wine from it, but we respect the power of the wild yeasts and wipe them out before fermenting. If you use half a dose you might not get them all and leave the strong ones, that is just like if they sprayed something in the orchard at half dose and it let some live to be resistant right? No reason you have to use it besides trying to make more sure you have a good turnout, a little insurance, but you dont have to use it, its your wine after all. Wine vinegar is pretty good to WVMJ

 

[sour_grapes]

but, how did the romans or European cultures up till 100 years ago do it? they didn't have metabisulphate. did they drink it all early then in that case? my understanding from the research I have done is that a Frenchman went to Africa and due to temperature differences to france figured out how to make/use this stuff...since then its used commercially. so, how did the earlier cultures do it?

My understanding is that the Romans (and their viticultural descendants) (a) DID drink their wine quickly compared to our standards, (b) DID lose a lot of wine to spoilage, and (c) DID use sulfur as a preservative, to the best of the abilities they had at the time. (Many sources report that they burned sulfur-containing wicks and candles in their storage vessels , although other sources say that practice did not develop until the middle ages. )

I think you will find this story in the Japan Times interesting. (It is a two-page article.)

 

[DoctorCAD]

Also, to muddy these waters even more, you use the term "organic" as though it means mystical powers that could never hurt humans.

Organic still has wild yeasts and wild bacterias on it. Arsenic is organic, cow poo is organic, lead and cadminum are organic. I don't want any of those in my wines.