Barolo No like

[ez2cy]

Made a Barolo. Finished and has been bulk aging for last 6 months in Carboy. (do it will all my wines).

I just don't like the taste of this wine. Never made it, never bought a bottle first. (Sister in law's idea to make this one)

Now, anything I might mix it with to smooth it out?

I'm a big fan of Amarone, Malbec etc. Mostly make higher end kits ie Cellar Craft with the grapes in it.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Geronimo]

Which kit was it?

It usually takes a year before it opens up. It's the "king of wines" so you have to give it the time it requires. A decent Barolo is an awesome experience IMO.

 

[Deezil]

Most that I've read about, take ~2 years to be "drinkable" and 4 years to be something more elegant.... 6 months isn't really enough time to be a fair judge, even as a kit

 

[Pumpkinman]

ez2cy,
Before we can make a recommendation, what exactly don't you like about it? personally, I'd start by adding Tannin Riche Extra and let it sit at least 3 more weeks, this will add a real nice level of the astringency that we expect, and it will smooth it out. Like Manley and Geronimo suggested, it may need to age more.
Keep us posted!

 

[ez2cy]

I can't remember what the kit was.

Not a top of the line one, such as a Cellar Craft with dried grapes etc.

Maybe I should just let it sit. I know I don't drink any of my reds before a year. I just sampled this from the carboy as I was curious. Most I bulk age 8 months to a year and then bottle them.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[suecasa]

question for pumpkinman

can you try to explain to me ...

how can tannin add astringency AND smooth things out at the same time? I like the oak/tannin effect but have a hard time understanding exactly what flavors are resulting from it's use! (sorry .. that may not have made any sense whatsoever!)

 

[ibglowin]

There is more than one post on this forum that says buy a bottle of commercial wine in whatever your making before you spend the $$$ on a kit and end up with 6 gallons of wine you don't like. I wanted to make a Barolo kit when I first started into this hobby/obsession. Then I went out and bought not one but then another Borolo wine. I just did not like that wine (either bottle) and they were not cheap. For that reason I have never made any Borolo kit. I would say like others, give it time. At least a year and 18mo is even better, it might come around. If not you have plenty of "steak marinade".

 

[cimbaliw]

In one of my many blunders, I added raisins and tannins after fermentation was done. Yes, now I know to add them during secondary. At any rate, the blunder turned out quite well, we really enjoy the wine. Body? you bet. Anyway, you could easily portion off a gallon and add 1-3oz raisins and 2tsp dissolved tannins.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Two tsp Tannins?! WOW! What kind of tannins are you using? What brand are you recommending?
Most cellaring and finishing tannins call for approx. 1 gram per gallon of must/wine?

 

[sdelli]

Two tsp Tannins?! WOW! What kind of tannins are you using? What brand are you recommending? Most cellaring and finishing tannins call for approx. 1 gram per gallon of must/wine?

I use Tannin Riche Extra.... Which calls for .3 grams per gallon. Rate of 3/4 tsp= 1 gram 2 tsp sounds about good...
I also use Tannin Complex.... Calls for .5 gram per gal.... Rate of 1 tsp. = 3 grams a carboy should get about 3 1/2 tsp.

How much do you add?

 

[Pumpkinman]

sdelli, real nice use of different tannins to achieve a nice range of positive characteristics.

My post was more a way to try to figure out which tannins are being used, and I guess at some point, it is non of my business, it isn't my wine; now that adding/using tannins are becoming a natural part of many WMT members wine making process, I really wanted to put an emphasis on the fact that a lot of generic tannin is being used, and although it will add a certain level of mouthfeel and the perception of oak, if specific tannins were used in place of the generic "wine tannin", they could achieve such a greater increase the sensory profile of their wine such as increased structure and mouthfeel, color stabilization, stability, anti-oxidative qualities, and overall complexity, heightened perception of vanillin oak character.

Different Tannins need to be tasted in different concentrations in different wines, for instance, the two tannins that you used work great together: "Tannin Complex, a cellaring tannin -It is particularly useful in wines with up-front fruit or where smooth tannin structure is lacking." This works great with Tannin Riche Extra - a finishing tannin, that is straight from Scott Labs.

I guess the easiest way to explain why using specific tannins is better would be to compare it to using EC-1118 for every wine instead of taking advantage of specific yeasts for various types of wine.

Sorry for ranting.

 

[cimbaliw]

Actually Pumpkinman, I'm glad you brought this up. I am using the standard LD Carlson oak powder pictured below (image stolen from Joeswine/Julie). After reading your (nicely done) article on tannins yesterday, I'm curious to know which tannin category these would fall into. The rest of the Joeswine thread is here, it calls for 4T of the powder/1 lb raisins. I've tried it and there's no going back.

 

[sdelli]

sdelli, real nice use of different tannins to achieve a nice range of positive characteristics. My post was more a way to try to figure out which tannins are being used, and I guess at some point, it is non of my business, it isn't my wine; now that adding/using tannins are becoming a natural part of many WMT members wine making process, I really wanted to put an emphasis on the fact that a lot of generic tannin is being used, and although it will add a certain level of mouthfeel and the perception of oak, if specific tannins were used in place of the generic "wine tannin", they could achieve such a greater increase the sensory profile of their wine such as increased structure and mouthfeel, color stabilization, stability, anti-oxidative qualities, and overall complexity, heightened perception of vanillin oak character. Different Tannins need to be tasted in different concentrations in different wines, for instance, the two tannins that you used work great together: "Tannin Complex, a cellaring tannin -It is particularly useful in wines with up-front fruit or where smooth tannin structure is lacking." This works great with Tannin Riche Extra - a finishing tannin, that is straight from Scott Labs. I guess the easiest way to explain why using specific tannins is better would be to compare it to using EC-1118 for every wine instead of taking advantage of specific yeasts for various types of wine. Sorry for ranting.

Good info... Thanks. What do you think of LD Carlson tannin? I never used it....

 

[Elmer]

JUst racked my WE Selection Barolo last night.
Took a sip,
I understand that it is only less than a month old, but it was flat and lacking in flavor.
Not at all what I expected.
If this is a full bodied wine, than it has a long way to come into itself.

Hoping some time in a oak barrel can add to its character.

 

[Geronimo]

The LD Carlson generic "wine tannin" (very low cost compared to others) is actually chestnut extract instead of oak.

I tried some of that, adding a tiny bit to a bottle of low tannin Zinfindel, and decided I wouldn't use it again. It added a "muddy" taste IMO.

I'm still looking for a tannin that adds a bit of bite to the finish. Most of the good ones polymerize to the point that they soften up completely.

Also, IMO, TanCor Grand Cru and Scott Labs Tannin Riche/Tannin Riche Extra are the best finishing tannins for low to moderate tannin reds.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Elmer,
A little Barolo Background that may help to understand the wine:

You will find many differences between the wines from vineyards in the "Barolo vineyard zone", some more aromatic, fruitier styles, some more tannic, some more complex, and broader-textured. the various "terroirs" will have a big impact on the type of wine that you will end up with, of course the winemaker has the biggest impact on the wine.

Traditionally, to earn the name Barolo, the wine must be aged 36 months, 18 of which are in oak barrels, 18 in bottle, if you are fortunate enough to get a "Riserva", the aging goes up to 62 months, the aging softens up the natural tannins.

Unlike Classic Barolo which required a decade of cellaring to soften the tannins, the push to get wines to market faster has resulted in reduced fermentation and maceration times resulting in less extraction of color or tannin from the skins which produces a wine that is fruitier, less tannic, with reduced body and mouthfeel that is obviously able to be sold and drank much faster.
This is another reason why fermenting on several lbs of fresh crushed grapes or grape skin packs can help a kit wine, or wine from Juice buckets in a major way.

I don't think that the Kit manufacturers are cold soaking the grapes to extract more color, flavor and tannins, I'd be surprised if the major Kit manufacturers ever see the actually grapes after "scouting" the vineyards, they probably receive the pressed juice and apply their process of balancing and stabilizing the juice before packaging, but this is only my opinion, I don't have any direct knowledge of the process involved to manufacture wine kits.

The wine is very young, as everyone stated this wine has a long way to go before it is ready.

I hope that I didn't bore you.
Tom

 

[Pumpkinman]

The LD Carlson generic "wine tannin" (very low cost compared to others) is actually chestnut extract instead of oak.

I tried some of that, adding a tiny bit to a bottle of low tannin Zinfandel, and decided I wouldn't use it again. It added a "muddy" taste IMO.

Jim, I couldn't agree more.
Tom

 

[Elmer]

Elmer,
A little Barolo Background that may help to understand the wine:

You will find many differences between the wines from vineyards in the "Barolo vineyard zone", some more aromatic, fruitier styles, some more tannic, some more complex, and broader-textured. the various "terroirs" will have a big impact on the type of wine that you will end up with, of course the winemaker has the biggest impact on the wine.

Traditionally, to earn the name Barolo, the wine must be aged 36 months, 18 of which are in oak barrels, 18 in bottle, if you are fortunate enough to get a "Riserva", the aging goes up to 62 months, the aging softens up the natural tannins.

Unlike Classic Barolo which required a decade of cellaring to soften the tannins, the push to get wines to market faster has resulted in reduced fermentation and maceration times resulting in less extraction of color or tannin from the skins which produces a wine that is fruitier, less tannic, with reduced body and mouthfeel that is obviously able to be sold and drank much faster.
This is another reason why fermenting on several lbs of fresh crushed grapes or grape skin packs can help a kit wine, or wine from Juice buckets in a major way.

I don't think that the Kit manufacturers are cold soaking the grapes to extract more color, flavor and tannins, I'd be surprised if the major Kit manufacturers ever see the actually grapes after "scouting" the vineyards, they probably receive the pressed juice and apply their process of balancing and stabilizing the juice before packaging, but this is only my opinion, I don't have any direct knowledge of the process involved to manufacture wine kits.

The wine is very young, as everyone stated this wine has a long way to go before it is ready.

I hope that I didn't bore you.
Tom

Tom,
Never a bored when I get educated.
Thanks for info.
I did throw some dried grape skins in to this mix. It was thier second use, so dont know how effective they were!
I thinkg I am going to run this thru my new barrel first. Maybe 5 weeks, then age for another year in a bottle.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Real nice plan!!!

 

[Wade E]

I love a good Barolo but I have to say when I first started I had bought a cheap rjs Barolo and it was so crappy I gave the whole batch to someone who didnt care what it tasted like with the exception of about 2 bottles for cooking with. It was like you said flat and watery and was not anywhere near what a Barolo should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!