Backsweetening Question

[btom2004]

I know I must have seen it some where, but can't find it now that I need info.

1. How much K-meta and sorbate do you use to backsweeten 6-gal/23 liter. carboy?
Same question for gal carboy?

2> Do I have to use both? Or could I just use sorbate?

 

[Julie]

No use both, 1/4 tsp k-meta for the 6 gallon and 1/2 tsp per gallon of sorbate. let it set for a few days before backsweetening.

 

[Rocky]

Btom, you have something mixed up here. You do not back sweeten with K-meta and K-sorbate. They are stabilizers for the wine; k-meta to stop the growth of any bacteria and k-sorbate to inhibit re-fermentation. Back-sweetening is accomplished in several ways, simple syrup (1 part water to 2 parts sugar, fully dissolved) or with a sweet juice (grape or other fruit). You do need to stabilize before back sweetening, so you would add 1/4 t of k-meta and 3 t of k-sorbate for 6 gallons of wine. Back sweetening with k-sorbate would make your wine taste like bubble gum.

 

[btom2004]

No use both, 1/4 tsp k-meta for the 6 gallon and 1/2 tsp per gallon of sorbate. let it set for a few days before backsweetening.

Thanks Julie

Btom, you have something mixed up here. You do not back sweeten with K-meta and K-sorbate. They are stabilizers for the wine; k-meta to stop the growth of any bacteria and k-sorbate to inhibit re-fermentation. Back-sweetening is accomplished in several ways, simple syrup (1 part water to 2 parts sugar, fully dissolved) or with a sweet juice (grape or other fruit). You do need to stabilize before back sweetening, so you would add 1/4 t of k-meta and 3 t of k-sorbate for 6 gallons of wine. Back sweetening with k-sorbate would make your wine taste like bubble gum.

Rocky
Well I made wine from a kit. Red Merlot~to dry. However after stabilizing it, I find it to be too dry. The many threads I've been reading all state that you must use the above before backsweenting. Am I taking it the wrong way? The wine is stabilized and degassed/cleared. Did the fining and stabilizing agents from kit, have the above in it? Even the kit stated to taste the wine and if it was too dry to add sorbate before backsweenting. I know after the many posts, that what you say is correct for stabilizing, but the addition of additional sugar or F-pack may cause re-fermentation. This is a no no right before bottling.

So I should add more as Julie suggested? Or since this is a kit, that has just been stabilized; just backsweeten and wait a few days before bottling making sure it dose not re-ferment?

 

[Julie]

btom2004, if the kit you used had you use k-meta as a stabizalor then all you need to add is sorbate. Then take some of the wine out, add it to a pan and I would add 2 cups of sugar, warm that up until you have the sugar disolved, add that back to your wine, stir to get this all mixed up, taste it, if it is to your liking, then take a hydrometer reading, so you know how sweet you like this wine. If it is still now sweet enough, take more wine out and add a cup, disolve this, taste again. continue in this fashion until you have your wine to where you like it. And remember the wine will sweeten slightly after sitting so you should stop to just slightly less sweet than you like.

 

[garymc]

I'm sure Julie means "if it is still not sweet enough" instead of "now." Funny how one letter can change the meaning of a sentence.

 

[Julie]

LOL, thank you garymc, yes I meant not

 

[btom2004]

btom2004, if the kit you used had you use k-meta as a stabizalor then all you need to add is sorbate. Then take some of the wine out, add it to a pan and I would add 2 cups of sugar, warm that up until you have the sugar disolved, add that back to your wine, stir to get this all mixed up, taste it, if it is to your liking, then take a hydrometer reading, so you know how sweet you like this wine. If it is still now sweet enough, take more wine out and add a cup, disolve this, taste again. continue in this fashion until you have your wine to where you like it. And remember the wine will sweeten slightly after sitting so you should stop to just slightly less sweet than you like.

Great...thanks kit had me using Kieselsol...Chitosan..unknown/Stabilizer. ( I found that K-Meta robs color and wine didn't change color at all-if that helps.)
No mention of Sorbate, until steps if I wanted to backsweeten.
Now Sorbate is Potassium Sorbate and not Potassium Metabisulfite. (Still attempting not to mix these two things up.)

 

[Rocky]

Btom, I am still not clear as to whether you kit came with any or all of the following: Potassium Metabisulfite (k-meta), Potassium Sorbate (k-sorbate), fining agents e.g. kieselsol & chitosan. Can you clarify this? Who is the manufacturer of the kit?

In your directions around when the SG is 0.995 or so, it should instruct you to at least add k-meta. At about the same time, it may also instruct you to add fining agents (I mentioned kieselsol & chitosan above, but there are others). It may or may not have instructed you to add k-sorbate because if you fermented it to dry (and it sounds like you have) there is little to no danger of re-fermentation. Now, since the wine is too dry for your taste, you will need to back sweeten it as Julie suggested with sugar or with a juice which I prefer, but that is a personal preference. Before you back sweeten, you should either have added k-sorbate that came with the kit or, if it did not come with the kit, you need to acquire some and add 1/2 t per gallon of wine before back sweetening.

I hope this does not confuse you. I am concerned that you may have added k-sorbate that came with the kit and, if so, you should not add more k-sorbate. It can give the wine a terrible taste.

 

[btom2004]

Btom, kit came with the following: fining agents e.g. kieselsol & chitosan. Who is the manufacturer of the kit? *Vino Italiano Merlot Red
In your directions around when the SG is 0.995 or so, it should instruct you to at least add k-meta. No K-meta...(Bentonite used in primary)just kieselsol & chitosan~for clearing
I hope this does not confuse you. I am concerned that you may have added k-sorbate that came with the kit and, if so, you should not add more k-sorbate. It can give the wine a terrible taste.There was a package that said Stabilizer, but it did not name which it was?

Ok so I'll just add K-sorbate and BS with juice and a bit of sugar to SG of my taste. Thanks

 

[Catfish]

Sorry to butt in, but I have a quick question. I added my meta and sorbate to a couple carboys about a month ago. I had planned on backsweetening that week. Well plans changed. I now plan on backsweetening them this weekend. Is it still good to go, or should I add more before backsweetening?

 

[pjd]

Sorry to butt in, but I have a quick question. I added my meta and sorbate to a couple carboys about a month ago. I had planned on backsweetening that week. Well plans changed. I now plan on backsweetening them this weekend. Is it still good to go, or should I add more before backsweetening?

You are good to go. Do not add more.

 

[Catfish]

That's what I wanted to hear. Thank you Phil.

 

[btom2004]

Today I went ahead and re-racked wine. I then added 3 tsp of Sorbate. After a few minutes I added an F-pack of 1 can (11.5 oz.) Welch's grape juice with 2 1/2 cups sugar. SG went from .996 to 1.006. I liked the taste so I stopped adding sugar. There is no activity in the airlock, so I guess it's doing good. I'll bottle in a few days, after checking to make sure wine has not started refermenting.

 

[Rocky]

Btom2004, sounds like you are on the right track there. Give it a good 3 or 4 days before bottling to be sure fermentation does not resume. I think you may have added k-sorbate in the packet marked "stabilizing packet" or whatever. I think that may have been k-meta and k-sorbate mixed together. I saw the Vino Italiano kit on Amazon and the ingredients cite "grape juice concentrate, varietal grape juice, liquid invert sugar, tartaric acid, citric acid, tannin, diammonium phosphate, metabisulphite, bentonite, wine yeast, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate, kieselsol, chitosan. (m)ay contain oak."

In any case, if you like the taste and you are pleased with it, that is really all that matters. Good luck with the bottling.

 

[btom2004]

Thanks Rocky
For a 1st timer not really sure what anything should taste like anyway. However the kit did say to add some before backsweetening, so it so be fine.