Back sweeten - how?

[M38A1]

I've read and read and read and I still can't wrap my head around how to back sweeten a wine when the time comes. I get the part about the k-meta/sorbate to cease fermentation potential. That's well documented. Yet just 'how' does one back sweeten?

I think I'll be drawing a sample and adding sugar and tasting until I like it but just a tad bit shy since I understand the sugars come more to life as it ages. Then I'll take a SG of my 'tastes good' sample. That part I get.

But when it comes time to add sugar to the carboy and stir it, how's that really done? I've been reading about not wanting to introduce air to the mix, but I need to get that sugar stirred/disolved without a simple syrup type addition as that will dilute the flavors somewhat.

I have two of the stirring rods - one with weed-wacker line in a double figure eight, and one with two little white expanding wings.

I'm thinking if I pour some sugar in the carboy, I can use either as long as I don't get the mixer part close to the top to add air into the mix, then keep adding/mixing to match the SG of my 'tastes good' sample.

Does that seem reasonable? Am I missing something so simple I can't see it?

 

[salcoco]

using sugar syrup will not dilute the flavor. the syrup is two cup sugar to one cup water. for 5 gallons you are adding 250 ml against 23,000ml, not sufficient in my thoughts to constitute any impact. One way to make you more comfortable, is once your sample and solution determined, make a 500ml batch sweeten per you selection add sorbate and let sit for about two weeks. revisit and see if it meets you requirements.

 

[meadmaker1]

Ive sweetened every wine ive made Kmeta and sorbate are easy.
Kmeta 1/4 tsp per 5 gallon at racking every 3 months
Sorbate per package instructions at the same time. One time.
Fermintation must be complete already. This isn't not formal documentation, "but trust me on this one" or promise to tell us all about what happens if you dont. The laughter that will come from your story doesnt come from things that are made up.

You can thief some wine to dissolve the sugar. Or add dry it will dissolve eventually.
Just don't judge it for a week or so.

 

[pete1325]

Hi, you might be overthinking the back sweetening issue a bit, but that's not a bad thing, we all do it. Most folks do a bench test, then multiply the amount of sweetener based on the volume you're back sweetening. This seems to work for most but I was never good at math so used the wine conditioner below per the instructions and my Riesling turned out perfect my taste. But keep in mind back sweetening is based on personal preference. As far as how to add and how to mix.....I just added it to my carboy and slowly stirred. Also, I wouldn't worry about exposing the wine to air, the amount of time your wine is exposed will not harm it. Hope this helps......

 

[Scooter68]

I'm doing exactly the same thing today with a blueberry wine. It's been aging since June of 2017. July 11 I racked and treated it with K-Meta and Sorbate. Today I did a test with 8 oz of the 3 gallon batch. I used a plastic syringe and started with 1ml of a 2:1 Simple syrup and kept adding 1 or 2 ml at a time until I was happy with it. Since my wine is already aged over a year I'm not too worried about overshooting the sweetness. I ended up with 7ml of Simple Syrup in 8 oz
That's 1/4 oz per 8oz. (.237 oz by conversion table)
Less 8oz already sweetened* (384oz -8oz = 376oz)
376 oz / 8 = 47
47 x 1/4 oz = 11.75 oz of simple syrup for the 3 gallons of wine.

In getting ready for this I had made simple syrup using 2 cups sugar to 1 cup boiling water. The total end volume is about 2 1/3 cups. (About 18 oz) So I already have all the simple syrup ready and it's now cooled down and ready to mix in. I will rack the wine into fermentation bucket with simple syrup and then bottle. Normally I like to wait a week before bottling but this time I'm going to take that risk and go for it. The blueberry has had only a very very light dusting on the bottom the carboy for the last 2 rackings so all should be ready. Just have to give the bottles a final StarSan rinse, dip the corks in start San solution and set them on a paper towel while I fill the bottles.

 

[M38A1]

Thanks for your input!

I'm just trying to stay ahead of myself a step or two down the road and read about the 02 problem that got me thinking about the 'how' do you add/mix the sugar. Looks like a couple options between a straight sugar and use a drill mixing rod or use the 2:1 simple syrup method. Both of course after bench testing to get it just right depending on personal preference.

 

[coboll2921]

I keep it simple...........I mix up the 2:1 simple syrup and just add to the five gallon bucket. I start out with about 1-2 cups and taste. If more is needed I add more. I also add the proper amount of potassium metabisulfite so no re-fermenting.

 

[GreginND]

I generally take 50 ml samples and dissolve sugar into them in 1% increments - so, 0.5 g (1%); 1.0 g (2%); 1.5 g (3%) etc. and then compare the taste side by side. Then I calculate how much sugar to add to the bulk volume to make the percent I find best.

FYI - converting units to metric makes it much easier. 1% is 1 g of sugar in 100 mL of wine. That would be 10 g per liter.

 

[tjgaul]

I would add a couple items. 1) when bench testing it helps to allow your test mixes to sit a little while to allow the sugar to blend in fully and 2) the wine should be the temperature at which you plan to drink it. Perceived sweetness can change depending on the temperature of the wine. We had to re-do some bench tests because the wine was too warm and the flavor did not come through.

Finally, it's been my experience that no matter how long the wine has aged prior to back sweetening, the perceived sweetness does increase over time. My general rule of thumb is to conduct the bench test, do the math and then only add 80%-90% of the calculated invert syrup amount.

Just another 2 cents worth to ponder.

 

[M38A1]

I keep it simple...........I mix up the 2:1 simple syrup and just add to the five gallon bucket. I start out with about 1-2 cups and taste. If more is needed I add more. I also add the proper amount of potassium metabisulfite so no re-fermenting.

Easy-breezy.....
Don't you mean adding potassium sorbate to prevent further fermenting? My understanding is k-meta is used to prevent unwanted yeasts from doing their thing.


Greg & Tim-
Thanks!

 

[Scooter68]

I keep it simple...........I mix up the 2:1 simple syrup and just add to the five gallon bucket. I start out with about 1-2 cups and taste. If more is needed I add more. I also add the proper amount of potassium metabisulfite so no re-fermenting.

Hopefully you meant Potassium Sorbate not just K-Meta. You need both to prevent a ferment restart AND you need them in at least a couple of days BEFORE you add any sugar to the batch.

The problem with adding to your entire batch is that if you over shoot, you can't go back. Bench trials eliminate that issue.

 

[WinoDave]

I use my hydrometer for Back sweeting. If I want a little bit of sweetness I go 1.010. If I want a sweet wine I’ll go to 1.020.
2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water for a simple syrup. I do this with my meads too and It’s seems pretty accurate. I can’t taste test like most People can, I get a buzz going after too much tasting.

 

[CUZN_J]

I keep it simple...........I mix up the 2:1 simple syrup and just add to the five gallon bucket. I start out with about 1-2 cups and taste. If more is needed I add more. I also add the proper amount of potassium metabisulfite so no re-fermenting.

well I just got confussed again, I was under the thought that metabisulfite-campden tablet, was a sterilizing or bacterial control substance, and potassium sorbate is used to stop fermentation, will someone PLEASE HELP with the TRUE USES..

 

[CUZN_J]

I would add a couple items. 1) when bench testing it helps to allow your test mixes to sit a little while to allow the sugar to blend in fully and 2) the wine should be the temperature at which you plan to drink it. Perceived sweetness can change depending on the temperature of the wine. We had to re-do some bench tests because the wine was too warm and the flavor did not come through.

Finally, it's been my experience that no matter how long the wine has aged prior to back sweetening, the perceived sweetness does increase over time. My general rule of thumb is to conduct the bench test, do the math and then only add 80%-90% of the calculated invert syrup amount.

Just another 2 cents worth to ponder.

OK so if you temp your bench [say 10oz ] then do back sweeten if the 3-5 gallons remaining, does it need to be the same temp or can it remain at room temp or where ever you do your work,

 

[tjgaul]

OK so if you temp your bench [say 10oz ] then do back sweeten if the 3-5 gallons remaining, does it need to be the same temp or can it remain at room temp or where ever you do your work,

Room temp is fine for blending and aging. Only needs to be cooler for the tasting. You want the wine to taste as you expect when you pull the finished bottle out of the fridge and pop the cork. The more similar the conditions during bench testing are to the final consumption, the better the end result.

 

[salcoco]

K-Meta in tablet or powder form is for bacterial control and oxygen scavenging also know as potassium metabisufite

Potassium sorbate control fermentation by keeping the yeast from reproduction.

 

[Scooter68]

well I just got confussed again, I was under the thought that metabisulfite-campden tablet, was a sterilizing or bacterial control substance, and potassium sorbate is used to stop fermentation, will someone PLEASE HELP with the TRUE USES..

You are correct. You need BOTH K-Meta (Potassium Metabisulfate) and Potassium Sorbate in the wine before you attempt to back-sweeten the wine. Normally I like to try to do it a week before adding any fermentable sugar to the wine.

 

[meadmaker1]

I use my hydrometer for Back sweeting. If I want a little bit of sweetness I go 1.010. If I want a sweet wine I’ll go to 1.020.
2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water for a simple syrup. I do this with my meads too and It’s seems pretty accurate. I can’t taste test like most People can, I get a buzz going after too much tasting.

I use my hydrometer for back sweetening also but, only after I noticed that im usually good around 1.010. I Usually shoot for half, leave for a week, test, taste, adjust.
Sweeten to taste then check sg. Keep notes and review them from time to time.

 

[CUZN_J]

Room temp is fine for blending and aging. Only needs to be cooler for the tasting. You want the wine to taste as you expect when you pull the finished bottle out of the fridge and pop the cork. The more similar the conditions during bench testing are to the final consumption, the better the end result.

I don't cool my wine, I seem to like it at room temp, so my wine stays aty room temp from when it is made to when it is drank, are there any other reasons for cooling the wine, does it do anything else that is beneficial, if I have to bring it back to roomtemp to drink, would the extra taste be rewarded????

 

[tjgaul]

Cooling is not necessary. If the wine you are sweetening will be consumed at room temperature then by all means conduct your tests at room temperature. I only back sweeten whites and we drink them chilled. This, my recommendation. I think you'll be fine. No worries about spoilage as long as your process was clean and you have adequate alcohol.