Argon gas

[John Prince]

I use argon gas to top off and bulk age in my carboys. I replace the gas every month. I've got 17 carboys filled with wine and argon gas. I've been doing this for 2 years and haven't had a problem yet. I didn't want to blend other wine with what I am making. I don't like using marbles. I had a couple folks say it wasn't the best thing to do. Any thoughts?

 

[GreginND]

It's better than not using it. But generally it is always a risk to have headspace. Seals are not perfect and the argon can be displaced with air quicker than you think.

 

[John Prince]

How can oxygen replace argon if argon is heavier? I understand a temperature change but I use a airlock.

 

[JohnT]

Please believe us when we say that it is never preferred to have any kind of headspace in your vessel.

The problem is this... Wine vessels with headspace will breath! This is due to even minute changes in temperature or barametric pressure. As the pressure of the gas increases, the gas wants to escape either through your fermentation lock or through the "weakest point" of your stopper. The opposite is true for when the pressure decreases (in which case outside air will make its way into your vessel.

Gas expands and contracts! This means that, over time, your argon will be replaed by air. This is way it is not recomended for long term storage.

A way around this is to place your wine into something that is truely pressure tight (like a korney keg). Otherwise, you will run a risk.

Save your money, avoid the cost of argon and the additional equipment involved, and just keep your vessel topped up.

johnT.

 

[ibglowin]

I answered this directly in the other thread but I guess you didn't like my answer so try again until you get the answer you like eh.....

Even if you flush the heck out of the headspace with lots of Argon or any other gas for that matter you will NEVER achieve a 100% inert gas blanket. You are mixing in argon with air. You will still have oxygen in there. Trust me.

I actually DO gas analysis for a living and I get paid for it. I have tested the head space of a topped up carboy using a gas tight syringe and there is STILL enough O2 in there to cause oxidation long term.

Again. Inert gas has a purpose in the winery (very short term use) but the long term bulk aging of a wine instead of toping up or racking down is NOT one of them.

 

[John Prince]

Okay. I'm about to top off a bunch of carboys. What should I top off mead with?

 

[g8keeper]

I answered this directly in the other thread but I guess you didn't like my answer so try again until you get the answer you like eh.....

Even if you flush the heck out of the headspace with lots of Argon or any other gas for that matter you will NEVER achieve a 100% inert gas blanket. You are mixing in argon with air. You will still have oxygen in there. Trust me.

I actually DO gas analysis for a living and I get paid for it. I have tested the head space of a topped up carboy using a gas tight syringe and there is STILL enough O2 in there to cause oxidation long term.

Again. Inert gas has a purpose in the winery (very short term use) but the long term bulk aging of a wine instead of toping up or racking down is NOT one of them.

correct me if i'm wrong, mike, but one of the purposes it may serve, in at least commercial scale wineries, is to purge bottles of oxygen just prior to filling???...and i can see for very shorttime....for example, while making my moscato, after racking to my carboy, i wound up a lil lower than my liking from primary, and knowing i still had additives later, i was not going to do any topping up(not that you should anyways at that stage), so i used my can of wine saver, which is inert gas, and squirted some into the carboy before putting my airlock on...i figured that should be good enough for about a week, til secondary fermentation finished up...

 

[JohnT]

I answered this directly in the other thread but I guess you didn't like my answer so try again until you get the answer you like eh.....

Even if you flush the heck out of the headspace with lots of Argon or any other gas for that matter you will NEVER achieve a 100% inert gas blanket. You are mixing in argon with air. You will still have oxygen in there. Trust me.

I actually DO gas analysis for a living and I get paid for it. I have tested the head space of a topped up carboy using a gas tight syringe and there is STILL enough O2 in there to cause oxidation long term.

Again. Inert gas has a purpose in the winery (very short term use) but the long term bulk aging of a wine instead of toping up or racking down is NOT one of them.

Good point Glowin,

My above post assumes a 100% flush (which, I agree, is next to impossible at home).

I honestly do not know where the fascination with argon comes from. I even had a former member of my group that just could not seem to get off the "Argon Bandwagon".



Quite simply, I feel that argon is dangerous in that it leads to a false sense of security. Just because you feel it may have worked in the past, consider that you might have just been plain lucky up until now.

John, We are not trying to be mean here. It is just that this has come up many times in the past, and we end up having to agrue our point every time. You may not agree with us and that is fine. Perhaps other members of this forum may also not agree with us. Ultimately, it comes down to us lending our opinions and advise. It is solely up to you to decide to follow it or not. No one here will fault you either way.

 

[John Prince]

That's the reason I ask questions. I've been wine making wine 22 months and made 1,380 bottles. I'm in the basic learning mode. The only reason I bought argon was because somebody said it was the way to go. I hate the marbles. It's too hard to rack and when I move the carboy around it muddies the wine. Here is what I'm going to do from now on. I going to top off to the neck then add argon gas because I have some left in the bottle.
What should I top off Mead with? Please don't say marbles. But, I might put marbles in the mead. Its clear.

 

[ibglowin]

I hate marbles as well. I always top off with wine or rack to smaller vessel. I don't make mead so have no clue as far as topping off except another mead (commercial?) I have lots of 6G carboys, 5G carboys, 3G carboys, 1G glass jug, 1.5L bottles, 750ML bottles, 375ML bottles.........

I love Argon as well but you have to know it does have its limitations. Use it wisely and it will be your friend!

 

[JohnT]

I agree with glowin. Top off with storebought (if you can find one) or something like it. If this can't be found, then rack down to a smaller size jug.

That little bit of air in the neck is not gonna hurt anything. If you want to sqirt in some argon, go ahead. It may not help, but it couldn't hurt.

 

[Rampage4all]

I've only been making about a year my dad has for 4 years and we go from 6 gal rack to the 5 gal then keep rest in the 1 gal for topping off so as not to change the flavor we have. Dads always used co2 to keep the 1 gal fresh and yes it does start to get fizzy after awhile but has never went bad. My dad only does about 50 gal each year. Now that I'm starting to do my own wine ( dad doesn't like making sweet wines) I will use the same proses except no co2 just rack the 1 gall to smaller vessels as needed.

 

[John Prince]

It took about 3 cases to top off. I need to make more wine just to make more wine.

 

[Runningwolf]

I am a fan of having a tank of Argon in my basement based off the amount I make. I RARELY USE IT! I am no fan of using marbles. My first choice is to take a bottle of like wine from my cellar and top up. Next choice is to rack down to smaller vessals. Once in a while I fall short, knowing I'm going to be doing something with this wine within a few weeks. This is when I use the Argone. Never for long term storage.

 

[GreginND]

Yes, I would agree. Not more than a month and I would purge the headspace with argon at least once a week.