Cellar Craft Amarone!
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Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Go with BM45 or BM4X4 if you can. They will bring out the varietal characteristics very well.
roger80465
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I second the BM4X4. Great stuff, especially for Italian reds
Mark, which Amarone kit are you going to use?
Here are some links to keep you busy!
http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/strains.asp
http://winemakermag.com/681-the-strain-game
Deezil and Seth on yeast nutrients
Tim Vandergrift article on Amarone winemaking tips.)
Here are some links to keep you busy!
http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/strains.asp
http://winemakermag.com/681-the-strain-game
Deezil and Seth on yeast nutrients
Tim Vandergrift article on Amarone winemaking tips.)
Geronimo
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Wow, great deal!
To answer your question; ec-1118 will be very slightly different. RC 212 is a very clean fermenter that preserves the color a tiny bit better than ec-1118. I've made the same kits with both yeasts and find the difference to be so minimal it's not worth worrying about.
Also, IMO, I'd make that kit at least once just like they package it. My only tweak to that kit is to add 45-60 grams of medium toast oak beans in secondary (I prefer American oak in this kit).
To answer your question; ec-1118 will be very slightly different. RC 212 is a very clean fermenter that preserves the color a tiny bit better than ec-1118. I've made the same kits with both yeasts and find the difference to be so minimal it's not worth worrying about.
Also, IMO, I'd make that kit at least once just like they package it. My only tweak to that kit is to add 45-60 grams of medium toast oak beans in secondary (I prefer American oak in this kit).
ShawnDTurner
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RC 212 is the yeast of choice for Bordeaux style wines! Ec-1118 will give you a sure fermentation with no Hydrogen Sulfite problems. RC212 would be a way better choice in this case. I am making amarone as we speaking. I am using BM4x4 and MAN O MAN!!!!! If you have access to this yeast or BM 45 I would go with the aforemention all the way........CHeers
Good morning everyone!
I'm making the cellar craft kit! I was able to squire the showcase kit for just over 100.00
good price, where did you buy from?
..
Geronimo
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Yeasts can drop out and go dormant if they get the least bit cold, or they run out of nutrients. Sometimes yeast will just go to sleep and you need to stir it up really good to get the activity rolling again.
What a lot of people don't understand is that yeast moves around vigorously via CO2. As it rises up, the CO2 releases and the yeast starts falling back down. The "churn" keeps the yeast in contact with the sugars until the job is done. If the yeast zonks out, you have to get it restarted. Sometimes, if the fermentation is really close to finished, then you're just out of luck.
SouthernChemist
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In particular, some yeast strains are very sensitive to temperature, nutrient availability, and other factors such as pH. If they become stressed, they may go dormant, die off, or create off flavors or smells (common examples being hydrogen sulfide or higher alcohols). BM45, for example, is known to have a high nutrient requirement and can prematurely stop fermenting (Tim V. from Winexpert has stated in the past that they had trouble using the yeast in their kits). There are some strains of beer yeast that are notorious for literally just stopping well before they should, and you have to stir them back into suspension to get things moving again or they will finish fermentation very slowly. Kit manufacturers usually use EC-1118 to avoid situations like that. It rarely fails to ferment, does not have high nutrient requirements, and can tolerate higher alcohol levels. This ensures a stable product and less of a headache. EC-1118 does not add anything special to the wine, however. It is certainly possible to switch the yeast out, but you need to careful and watch how things go. In other words, you can't put it in and forget out it for several days like you can many times with EC-1118.
One other thing to keep in mind is that the differences between strains can be more subtle with regards to flavor, mouthfeel, etc.
Pumpkinman
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BM45 and BM4x4 are very much nutrient hogs, this you have to watch, I've never had these two yeasts even so much as a hiccup at temp fluctuations, but you want to have Fermaid K or Fermaid O on hand, you will want to split the application up into two applications, trust me on this, I've used both of these yeasts a lot.
Now the big question..are you ready to "keep an eye on the kit"? Most kits are tested and the yeast that is most successful is usually selected by the manufacturer.
I can understand why EC-1118 is usually the "go to" yeast for kits, it can ferment a brick, some of its traits are:
The fermentation characteristics of EC-1118 are extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) this is a no brainer for Kit manufacturers.
It has a relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution, this is appealing to the Kit manufacturer, once they balance out the must and give you the steps to take to produce a wine, they don't want anything to compromise that.
It ferments well over a very wide temperature range, between 50° to 86°F, this is a very large window, almost fool proof.
So now that we know why EC-1118 is often found in Kits, it may give you an idea of what you may have to look, and smell for.
I personally prefer BM4X4, it is a great yeast for big bold reds, just make sure that you are prepared to add Fermaid a few times.
Now the big question..are you ready to "keep an eye on the kit"? Most kits are tested and the yeast that is most successful is usually selected by the manufacturer.
I can understand why EC-1118 is usually the "go to" yeast for kits, it can ferment a brick, some of its traits are:
The fermentation characteristics of EC-1118 are extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) this is a no brainer for Kit manufacturers.
It has a relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution, this is appealing to the Kit manufacturer, once they balance out the must and give you the steps to take to produce a wine, they don't want anything to compromise that.
It ferments well over a very wide temperature range, between 50° to 86°F, this is a very large window, almost fool proof.
So now that we know why EC-1118 is often found in Kits, it may give you an idea of what you may have to look, and smell for.
I personally prefer BM4X4, it is a great yeast for big bold reds, just make sure that you are prepared to add Fermaid a few times.
Geronimo
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Yes, doubling the inoculation helps insure a complete fermentation. However, you might miss some ester production during the growth phase. It's hard to over pitch yeast.
Another factor people should think about is that the specialty yeasts being talked about have lower alcohol limits. Doing an Amarone kit that's intended to hit 15-16% with a yeast that has a tolerance of 15% is going to require some expertise and management.
For instance, you might want to have a yeast cake of EC-1118 on hand and rack the nearly finished wine on to it to get the FG down where it needs to be.
Another option (one that I'm experimenting with) is using the EC-1118 instead of RC 212 and then adding finishing tannins like Tan Cor Grand Cru to achieve a higher tannin wine. So far the results are mixed. I'm thinking that ordinary tannins might actually be better for this job, but I'm not trying that theory yet.
Another factor people should think about is that the specialty yeasts being talked about have lower alcohol limits. Doing an Amarone kit that's intended to hit 15-16% with a yeast that has a tolerance of 15% is going to require some expertise and management.
For instance, you might want to have a yeast cake of EC-1118 on hand and rack the nearly finished wine on to it to get the FG down where it needs to be.
Another option (one that I'm experimenting with) is using the EC-1118 instead of RC 212 and then adding finishing tannins like Tan Cor Grand Cru to achieve a higher tannin wine. So far the results are mixed. I'm thinking that ordinary tannins might actually be better for this job, but I'm not trying that theory yet.
Pumpkinman
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Varis, the temp tolerance is 64° - 82° with an alcohol tolerance of 15%, in the future you would be happier using BM4x4,"BM 4X4 is a blend of Lalvin BM45 and another yeast known for its fermentation reliability"
Mark1983, I apologize, this wasn't meant to scare you, or stop you from using a different yeast, just the opposite, I just wanted to make sure that you were prepared for anything that could happen, plus, I'm a bit of a data fanatic and a research junkie, I like the analytical aspect of most anything,
I've always been a big fan of knowing why we do or use certain things, in this case, EC-1118 or BM4x4, if you know the thresholds and tolerances, you can make educated decisions and make wine that is tailored to your tastes....that is the fun part of making wine!
Mark1983, I apologize, this wasn't meant to scare you, or stop you from using a different yeast, just the opposite, I just wanted to make sure that you were prepared for anything that could happen, plus, I'm a bit of a data fanatic and a research junkie, I like the analytical aspect of most anything,
I've always been a big fan of knowing why we do or use certain things, in this case, EC-1118 or BM4x4, if you know the thresholds and tolerances, you can make educated decisions and make wine that is tailored to your tastes....that is the fun part of making wine!
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