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AIO Headspace Eliminator

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dralarms

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If it’s leaking then pull the bulb, wipe the end with food grade vegetable oil, reinsert far enough to where there is a little sticking out, grab that with a clean set of pliers and pull, it will seat down better and won’t leak as bad if at all. I’ve placed one on a 5 gallon carboy for 6 to 8 months and it was still under vacuum when I pulled it off.
 

Rice_Guy

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* time is a key variable, in splash racking I assume that the system is a thin film and in equilibrium with the vacuum the pump can maintain, I also assume active release of CO2 such that the partial pressure of O2 is low being flushed out and CO2 is high while the pump is running. I also assume dosing with K meta when finished to counteract potential oxygen.
* as Paul pointed out there is a large percentage of the atmosphere still present if you use it to save a carboy, ,, pencil pushing about bottling the estimate was we pressurize enough oxygen in an inch of ullage to saturate 750 ml with O2.
* the design specifications of plastic check valves list a delta P for the spring/ vitron seat, they aren’t NASA grade seals, ,,, and my look at design was it would last longer with a small ball valve, (but cost ten times as much)
No, I'm not sure I agree with you. Oxidation doesn't happen instantly, but rather takes some time. The time for racking is relatively short (5 maybe 10 minutes). The time it is left with X amount of oxygen present maybe be much longer, I believe 6 months was stated, but even 1 or 3 months might be enough.

Bottom line is a well topped up wine is really the way to go.
 

Whyno

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If there were considerable oxidation occurring, wouldn't a accurate measure of free SO2 before and after storage with the headspace eliminator prove this? I have only a couple data points, but after about 3 months of storage, I'm showing consumption of only about 10 ppm of free SO2, on average.
 

jsbeckton

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* time is a key variable, in splash racking I assume that the system is a thin film and in equilibrium with the vacuum the pump can maintain, I also assume active release of CO2 such that the partial pressure of O2 is low being flushed out and CO2 is high while the pump is running.
That is probably a good assumption for initial racking but maybe not so good of an assumption for final racking or bottling when the CO2 is pretty much gone.

I used to use a Blichmann beer gun for bottling beer. Their design has you use CO2 to “purge” the bottle first and then pressure fill from the bottom up. With the AIO the CO2 may or may not be there as you fill from the top down so lots of contact with whatever gasses are in the bottle.
 

Paulietivo

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I use them for degassing and after I add bentonite. I wouldn't use it for long term storage. I do notice that if you vacuum it again after a few days that it still pulls out some air.
 

Ajmassa

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Great discussion here.
Theory and actuality are 2 different things. I’ve had wine oxidize while under vacuum with headspace as well. Despite the vacuum there’s gotta be other variables contributing to free so2 binding up to then allow for wine to oxidize- . I dont know what these variables are— but they exist. They have to.

I compare it to the natural vacuum created in barrels. The barrels natural vaccum is pulled continuously due to the porous wood’s o2 permeability reacting with the outside temp & pressure (? Or something along these lines). So a barrel’s outside factors actually help contribute to the vacuum.
A glass vacuum is just pulled and capped while outside factors fight to undo it.

I won’t say the headspace eliminator is flawed. It’s not. It’s a great product and does a great job. Its a fantastic temporary solution. the only way to make it long term would be a constant pull like what naturally occurs in barrels, rather than a pull & cap - which isn’t realistic to do. If that was actually figured out then you’d have the benefits of a barrels vacuum without the issue of so2 binding. Until then it’s temporary or topping up the vacuum routinely.

like @Whyno pointed out, a comprehensive study of so2 levels before & after of glass topped up, glass with headspace w/ & w/o HE’s, & barrels would probably answer a lot of the unknowns.
 

jsbeckton

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Good discussion indeed! I think it can simply be summarized as follows but open to any other conclusions:
  • Headspace Eliminator: Mine seems to max out at about 22 in Hg which is about 75% of atmosphere. Therefore you have 25% of the air in there that you had before. You might not want to leave it for much longer than you would with 25% of the headspace that it has.
  • Vacuum Racking: The racking under ‘vacuum’ isn’t as significant (would like to measure) so it’s really not much different than racking with a siphon without a vacuum, as far as O2 exposure is concerned, especially after the first racking. The benefit is convince and CO2 removal more so than and O2 protection.
 
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Whyno

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Great discussion here.
Theory and actuality are 2 different things. I’ve had wine oxidize while under vacuum with headspace as well. Despite the vacuum there’s gotta be other variables contributing to free so2 binding up to then allow for wine to oxidize- . I dont know what these variables are— but they exist. They have to.

I compare it to the natural vacuum created in barrels. The barrels natural vaccum is pulled continuously due to the porous wood’s o2 permeability reacting with the outside temp & pressure (? Or something along these lines). So a barrel’s outside factors actually help contribute to the vacuum.
A glass vacuum is just pulled and capped while outside factors fight to undo it.

I won’t say the headspace eliminator is flawed. It’s not. It’s a great product and does a great job. Its a fantastic temporary solution. the only way to make it long term would be a constant pull like what naturally occurs in barrels, rather than a pull & cap - which isn’t realistic to do. If that was actually figured out then you’d have the benefits of a barrels vacuum without the issue of so2 binding. Until then it’s temporary or topping up the vacuum routinely.

like @Whyno pointed out, a comprehensive study of so2 levels before & after of glass topped up, glass with headspace w/ & w/o HE’s, & barrels would probably answer a lot of the unknowns.
I pulled another sample for SO2 analysis of a red wine aged while using the headspace eliminator. Storage vessel was a 5 gallon glass carboy with about 4.8 gallons of wine. Prior to applying vacuum the free SO2 was 34ppm by SC100a, 5 months later 26ppm by the same method. Initially, I left it, as is, for about a month at a time. After 3 months I started pulling vacuum on it more frequently, every one to two weeks for about 30 seconds each time. Just one data point, but it's data.
 

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