Advice (Italian Table Wine)

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Robert64

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I'm in the process of starting a large batch of red table wine for an Italian banquet hall. It will be a 400 litre batch made up of 20 litre juice pails. I'm looking for a good dry wine that is medium in body and color. Maybe a Carignane/Alicante/Grenache blend???

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Rob
 

Tom

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If you are getting fresh juice 5 gallon pails what is being offered? Where you are?
Have you made wine?
When does this wine have to be ready by?
 

Robert64

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Yes, I have made wine before. However, it was for personal consumption. Therefore, I focused on my taste rather than the taste of the masses. I live in Canada. Whole grapes and fresh juices are readily available from Niagara, California and Europe. I'm looking for a wine that will not require aging to be approached.
 

Tom

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Rather than blending why not go for some "old standby's"?
Most would know a Pinot Noir. I make that all the time with oak and you can bottle in 6 months. Cab and Red Zin I feel would more a full body wine.
 

cpfan

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Robert64:

Don't know where in Canada you live, but I wonder about the legality of this project. Restaurants are not generally allowed to serve consumer made wine.

Steve
 

Robert64

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cpfan: The hall is licensed to serve the wine that we make on the premises.

Tom: A Pinot Noir might make a nice house wine but I would think that a Zin or Cab might be too full bodied for an Italian house wine.
 

St Allie

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Hello Robert and welcome to the forum,

You want something that you can drink young.. but not too 'light' bodywise?

When exactly are you expecting to put this on the table for your guests? What's your timeframe?

I'm a big fan of merlot.. and also cab franc..at least a pinot requires less aging..still, you will need some aging in a red.. or it'll taste terrible.

Allie
 

Tom

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cpfan: The hall is licensed to serve the wine that we make on the premises.

Tom: A Pinot Noir might make a nice house wine but I would think that a Zin or Cab might be too full bodied for an Italian house wine.
Yep! Thats what I said.
Cab and Red Zin I feel would more a full body wine.
I'm not sure that the majority will like a blended wine. Most who are not wine drinkers know Pinot Grigio and Pinot Noir so thats what they order when out.
 

Robert64

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Ok Tom, if you were getting married and had 300 people at you wedding reception, what red and white wines would you put on the tables? What about Gamay and Pinot Grigio?
 

Robert64

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You want something that you can drink young.. but not too 'light' bodywise?

When exactly are you expecting to put this on the table for your guests? What's your timeframe?
Obviously the shorter the turn around time, the better. I'd like to be under six months.
 

St Allie

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sheesh... that is cutting it fine..

Just a thought..

Would kits be a better option for consistency? That way you could have a range of varietals. Particularly the white kits would be ready to drink at 4 months. Would it be possible to buy your reds from a winery with a bulk discount perhaps?

Allie
 
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Tom

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Ok Tom, if you were getting married and had 300 people at you wedding reception, what red and white wines would you put on the tables? What about and Pinot Grigio?
Well how long before the wedding?
That can make a BIG difference. 6 months for a red and like Allie said 4 months for a white.
If you make it I would label it so the guests know what it is. Remember you are making it for the "masses" NOT yourself. So, be safe and make something that all are familiar with. I don't know where you are from so I would say Gamay/Pinot Noir and Pinot Grigio would be safe bets. I think a KIT wine would be best it you need to serve it in 6 months or less.

Where you from?
 

St Allie

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Sauvignon blanc would also be a good, easy drinking choice in a white wine.

Allie
 

Robert64

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Allie,Tom,

I live in Ottawa, Canada. Many kits and pails of juice are available here. I'm not clear on what the difference is between a rehydrated concentrate and juice. I have made both. In theory, rehydrated concentrated juice should be identical to fresh juice, shouldn't it. I have heard that concentrates are more consistant but lack character. Why would a juice take longer to age?
 

Tom

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Look at it this way.
You can make orange juice from a concentrate and you can buy 100% fresh squeezed.
Which would taste better?
I make wine from 100% fresh CA, Italian and Chilean juice.
It is also cheaper than getting a kit of the same wine. Kits have their place. They can be made any time of the year. They also have wine kits that you can't get in fresh juice. I know we who make wine do both providing that you can get juice. The lower end kit wines will be thin in body and taste. The fresh juice will have better body and taste.

Kits are designed to be bottled much sooner than fruit or juice wines. That way the consumer will buy another and ....
 

Robert64

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Look at it this way.
You can make orange juice from a concentrate and you can buy 100% fresh squeezed.
Which would taste better?
I make wine from 100% fresh CA, Italian and Chilean juice.
It is also cheaper than getting a kit of the same wine. Kits have their place. They can be made any time of the year. They also have wine kits that you can't get in fresh juice. I know we who make wine do both providing that you can get juice. The lower end kit wines will be thin in body and taste. The fresh juice will have better body and taste.

Kits are designed to be bottled much sooner than fruit or juice wines. That way the consumer will buy another and ....
Based on my own experience and from what you and Allie are saying, I should start both fresh juice and kits. The kits will be ready sooner and then I can switch everything to juices.
 

St Allie

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Based on my own experience and from what you and Allie are saying, I should start both fresh juice and kits. The kits will be ready sooner and then I can switch everything to juices.
I'm just giving you suggestions based on your timeline.. You'll need to pull out all the tricks of the trade if you want to make the red all from juice.. such as bentonite.. finings etc.. kits may be a viable option.. they may not.. however if you are in canada where the taxes on alcohol are horrendous.. kits are going to be a far cheaper option than commercial wines, for such a large wedding party. Also as Tom mentioned kits are designed for a quick turn around, designed to be drinkable sooner.


Allie
 
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Robert64

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I'm just giving you suggestions based on your timeline.. You'll need to pull out all the tricks of the trade if you want to make the red all from juice.. such as bentonite.. finings etc.. kits may be a viable option.. they may not.. however if you are in canada where the taxes on alcohol are horrendous.. kits are going to be a far cheaper option than commercial wines, for such a large wedding party.

Allie
A large wedding party? We will be going through over 800 litres of wine per month. With this kind of volume, finding a good source is important. I need a good wine that is not too expensive. Time in the fermenter is important since for each extra month, I'll need two extra 400 liter stainless steel tanks.

One other piece of inforantion. The supplier of the tanks recommends not bottling and just go from tank to carafe to table. The tanks are variable volume and are designed for this.

I'd love to talk with someone here that has experience in this area.
 

Tom

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WOW ! 800 liters a month! Thats over 200 gallons. Why so much Every month? Is ther e limit you can make if you are from Canada..I thought it was a one time "party"
 

St Allie

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A large wedding party? We will be going through over 800 litres of wine per month. With this kind of volume, finding a good source is important. I need a good wine that is not too expensive. Time in the fermenter is important since for each extra month, I'll need two extra 400 liter stainless steel tanks.

One other piece of inforantion. The supplier of the tanks recommends not bottling and just go from tank to carafe to table. The tanks are variable volume and are designed for this.

I'd love to talk with someone here that has experience in this area.
hehehe..

well english is a wonderfully vague language..!

My interpretation of your earlier post regarding 300 people for a wedding.. I thought it was your wedding.. not that you are commercially catering for weddings in general.

Allie
 

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