2013 Elderberries

[dessertmaker]

Many species of elderberries do have a cyanide inducing chemical in them. And very rarely, people will report getting sick from eating large amounts of them. European black elder is the only species that does not contain this glycoside in "toxic" amounts, but it is still recommended to cook them before consuming them.

The american red elder is known to produce mature "toxic" berries but ive heard of people making wine with them (destemmed, cooked and always aged) You just have to be careful if you're using anything that's not European black elder.

Heat and time are both supposed to cause the "poison" to degrade.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Somebody always posts on elderberry threads that you have to cook them or you will get sick. People have been eating and making wine from them for centuries, how many records can you find of anyone really getting sick from them? The one that is easy to find was because the idiots crushed the fruit and leaves together, one old dude got the schlitzes. Green apples will do the same thing to you. We have fermented raw ripe berries, steamed them, boiled them and made wine from the dried ones (we like the taste of the dried ones best). No problems to us or anyone who has tried them. Not saying some people might not be more sensitive, just like sulphites, less 1% of the population is actually sensitive but everyone thinks they are.

IF YOU ARE PICKING WILD FRUIT YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE WHAT YOU ARE PICKING.

Black elderberries are red before they are ripe, are you sure you are not seeing black ones that are not ripe yet?

WVMJ

 

[Downwards]

Well, my fresh elderberry came out just plain awful. I dumped it (even though I never really dump imperfect wines- usually reserve for something..). It smelled and tasted very strongly of some kind of chemical. I think I simply had too many unripe berries in it. Smelled like a cleaning product of some kind.
My hastiness in sorting/cleaning has foiled me here. BUT, I also made a double batch of my dried elder which came out very nice indeed. In other positive news I bought 6 elderberry trees of my own, so this will not be my last attempt! They are tiny little things now but growing very well.

 

[dessertmaker]

Here's the article he's talking about.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000311.htm?mobile=nocontent

And here's the reason why it doesn't happen often, the levels of the cyanide producing glycoside in the berries vary from bush to bush in the same species and even vary by time of day.

http://elmu.umm.ac.id/file.php/1/ju...tics and Ecology/Vol28.Issue7.Aug2000/722.pdf

But like I said earlier, heat and time causes them to break down on their own. Fermentation might do this anyway, since the glycosides are actually sugar groups.

At any rate, it's obvious that they're there in the berry when you pick them. My great uncle told me they always picked them in the evening because there was less of the "bad stuff" in them then. Then that night they would mash them into paste and cook them at just below a simmer with local honey. I read an article about the local Indians doing something similar for the same reasons.

So while it is true that people have been using them for hundreds of years, it's also obviously true that occasionally people get sick from them if they don't cook them down a little.

We still love elderberry syrup in my house. It's the cure for everything. I've thought about fermenting our syrup and making elderberry melomel but it almost seems sacrilegious to "waste" our "medicine."

 

[Downwards]

Ironically, it's probably the toxins that are the reason for it's claimed health benefits. People have eaten and revered elderberry as a tonic since before written history, and most of what we call medicine is also toxic. I'm not saying anything but a very general thing here- everyone should do their own research with uncommon foods and should be comfortable with their procedures. But just about everything we consume has toxins in it, including all wines. Intoxication is a similar word for a reason, as I'm sure we all know. There may be some truth to what you've read, but I put more faith in what so many others have already been making and drinking for years (centuries probably!) without ill effects.

 

[dessertmaker]

Hey I'm not saying I don't have "faith" in tradition. I'm saying in my family for generations we've cooked the damn berries before we eat them. That IS the tradition. LOL

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Cooked elderberry wine is ok, 50% raw juice is better, dried elder melomel you wont want to tell anyone you made it so you dont have to share it, give them the cooked stuff WVMJ

 

[cintipam]

Lots of good info to think about. I do appreciate that. And yes, I mucho agree that it is important to know what you are picking. I'm talking about a plant I purchased at a nursery that said elderberry that I planted thinking I'd be able to use the berries. To decide where best to plant I did research on web and that is where I found the info about my specific plant (Purple Tower Elderberry, var. Racemosa) producing red berries that are not safe for human consumption. Looks like there is a basis to that. Since I just planted the thing I got years before I need to make a decision tho. Unless of course I rip it out and replace with a variety known to be safe. I got lots of other wine making stuff growing already so it would not be a big loss at this point.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences with the berries along with preparation methods cause it sounds like it matters quite a lot on this subject.

Pam in cinti

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

HI Pam, BTW welcome to the group here. If you have room why not keep it, they are very nice looking plants, just dont eat the berries, leave them for the birds. If you only got one plant it might not set much anyway, not sure if they need more than one bush to set fruit. WVMJ

 

[Julie]

Ironically, it's probably the toxins that are the reason for it's claimed health benefits. People have eaten and revered elderberry as a tonic since before written history, and most of what we call medicine is also toxic. I'm not saying anything but a very general thing here- everyone should do their own research with uncommon foods and should be comfortable with their procedures. But just about everything we consume has toxins in it, including all wines. Intoxication is a similar word for a reason, as I'm sure we all know. There may be some truth to what you've read, but I put more faith in what so many others have already been making and drinking for years (centuries probably!) without ill effects.

I couldn't agree more with you. I have eaten elderberry jelly all my life and have been making elderberry wine for bout six years, never once have I gotten sick. This is my most favorite wine. And there have been studies that claim elderberries helps you immune system.

 

[ffemt128]

Oh the elderberry jelly we made 2 years ago was great even though it didn't gel well and I absolutely love elderberry wine. I picked another 7 lbs on Sunday. Not many floaters this time around. I'll be checking the primary bush this week. I'm figuring it will be ready about Wendesay. My other location was all cut down this year. No berries from there. I'll be ckecking the new location this week as well. May not be as good of year as I had hoped....

 

[ffemt128]

Need to get out tomorrow and check on elderberries. Should be some ripe ones based on what I saw last weekend. Need to get enough for at least one batch. Home projects coming up that I don't think I'll be sneaking away from anytime soon.

 

[wood1954]

I took my time this year and picked only ripe berries over about a week.
what a difference over the last time when i wasn't so picky. I ended up with about 30 lbs of berries. i did add 3.5 gallons of water to get almost 6 gallons of wine after straining out the cap. My butt was really sore after sitting and destemming them for 3.5 hours. after straining the must and tasting after it's been fermenting for 4 days it's worth it. really nice flavor and for extra body i added two bananas. the ph is 3.6 after adding 54 grams of tartaric acid, I'm going to leave the ph alone now and see where it goes when it's done fermenting.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

There are much easier ways, we have compiled a description of many different ways that people have kindly shared with us on our elderberry webpage. Our favorite is scraping them across a baking cooling rack and then adding cold water to chill the fruit quickly and then the fruit that isnt ripe will have a lower specific gravity and float, ripe fruit has a higher specific gravity and sinks to the bottom.

I took my time this year and picked only ripe berries over about a week. what a difference over the last time when i wasn't so picky.menting.

 

[ffemt128]

I'm bummed this year. Due to household projects I only managed to pick about 30 lbs of berries. Oh well, I cam make a 5 gallon batch or a very full bodied 3 gallon batch...

 

[WineYooper]

Can't believe what a difference a few hundred miles makes in the growing season, the berries here (Mn.) are not close to being ripe. From reading it sounds like the berries are about the same size, around 3/16 dia. Last year was my first year picking the wild ones and I thought it was a huge undertaking but after reading tips here I may do it again. My neighbor has a bunch of plants around the horse pasture. Definitely like the wine made from these. Thanks.

 

[Julie]

I have about 60# thanks to a friend who got me 30# and we got the other 30 at camp

 

[Sammyk]

We started 5 gallons from juice from Home Winery. It has kind of a medicinal smell. Is that normal?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Value those elderberries you picked this year. It seems those dam spotted drosophila also host on pokeweed and its been a very good year for pokeweed, I was looking at some and they also had flies on them as well. WVMJ

 

[ffemt128]

I always value any Elderberries I can get...Still bummed I didn't get more....