Yet another Degassing Post - It’s a Gas!!

[MedPretzel]

Hey everyone,





I unfortunately didn't tote my camera down to the wine-lab tonight when I decided to degas my mint/lemon-balm wine.

WOAH!





Talk about an eruption of CO2!!! I stirred about 10 minutes total (4 oldie songs, with some "rest" time in between). Boy, the stuff foamed and foamed and foamed.





I wanted to discuss the effects of raising the temperatures to degas. I put a brew-belt around 2 of my wines (lemon-balm, which was cold stabilized in a previous post and chrysanthemum, which is still sort of fermenting - also another post) since the temps in the basement were hovering around 63ish F. Needless to say, the mum wine took off like a rocket (again!), and more sediment dropped down to the bottom of the mint-lemon balm wine.





So I decided to rack this evening. Since i had quite a bit of head-space at the top, I decided to take a chance and degas. The BrewBelt keeps the temperature at approx 75-80 degrees, of course, depending on the ambient temperature. The company does not recommend it for glass carboys, but I use it there. I haven't had any problems yet. (knock on wood)





WOW! It erupted way better than I had imagined it would. There was a fluffy, fine foam (reminded me of powdery snow, for you northerners) at the top once I started. The whole 5-gallon batch turned a white-ish color. Lots of little bubbles stuck to the sides of the carboy, and eventually released with the current that the wine whip created.


I let it sit for another 5 minutes, and went at it again. Less foam this time, but the wine still turned a white-ish color. I stirred for 1 minute each time, let it die down, and started again.


After 10 minutes, I decided enough was enough, and quit for the evening. I will do the same procedure tomorrow, hopefully, and then I'll have my camera ready.


After this experience, I realize why there were particles floating in the the wine, as if in suspension. It must have been all that CO2 in there.

You learn something new everyday!





Well, I just wanted to share.

 

[PolishWineP]

Winemaking--A new experience as often as you like!

 

[Waldo]

Do you stir in the same direction or reverse directions during degassing

 

[MedPretzel]

I just do it in one direction. Most drills allow the reverse-mode, but not my old drill. It was a cast-off and I saved it from the trash for my winemaking.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Sounds like a heap of fun

Another thing to be aware of, if you are raising the temperature of the
wine with something like a brew belt or heating pad (or like me, placing
carboys near the wood stove) is that a rise of even 3-4 degrees will cause
quite a bit of liquid expansion in the carboy. If you left it topped off near
the base of the neck while cool, it will be well up into the neck when
warmer, and getting close to the bottom of the airlock.

Bill

 

[MedPretzel]

Well, here's a pic.

The arrow in the last image shows the bubbles that are swept away in the current.





I will be continuing to degas the wine this weekend.

 

[PolishWineP]

Looks like a hurricane going on in there!

 

[Waldo]

I think I remember in another post where someone said they racked back to their primary fermenter to degas. Is this an acceptable method? Does it work any better? Does anyone else do this?

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

I've done it but found that there was tremendous splashing out the top since
it is such a wide area. In the carboy, it is well contained by the narrow neck -
just keep the level down near the shoulder as Martina's photo shows.

 

[PolishWineP]

Hhhmmm.... Won't that give you too much oxygen exposure? My thinking is that keeping it in the carboy allows you to draw the CO2 out without adding a lot of oxygen to it. Or, am I missing something here?

 

[masta]

I have found easy and efficient degassing works if you follow a few simple rules:
<UL>
<LI>make sure the wine is at least 70 degrees as the colder the liquid the more gas will stay in solution after fermentation
<LI>make sure the wine has completed fermentation and more time is better as the CO2 will come outof solution on it's own
<LI>use a drill mounted stirrer such as a Fizz-X or Mix-Stir</LI>[/list]


Kits are normally harder to degas since you are following a accelerated time line from fermentation to bottle. The fruit wines and meads I have made needed very little help with degassing since they sat for a longer time clearing and slowly degassed on their own.

 

[NorthernWinos]

Been reading this degassing thread and find it interesting and confusing....so...

Okay....I am going to spill my guts and lay my ignorance on the table for all to see.....I have never degassed any wine.

I am new to this hobby/passion of winemaking. I am book-learned and with a bit of experience, only on the 19th batch of wine....all have been fruit wines from recipes, some recipes my own. The only gas/bubbles I have seen have been in Sparkling Apple wine that were induced with yeast and sugar at bottling.

I thought that you were suppose to keep oxygen away from wine after primary fermentaion....then I read this thread and reread the posts and see you all beating your wine...which must add air....so.... why???
Or see others drawing bubbles off with a vacuum, this mustn't add air...
Which is the best method?????
Should all wines be degassed?????
How do you tell to degas or not???
Am I the only one here who isn't degassing???

I have never noticed any fizz or bubbles when opening a bottle of my fruit wines. We do let them clear well before bottling, we do rack fairly often and I cringe when I see any air, splashing or frothing at racking, thinking it's air being in contact with the wine.....
So, I am still confused.....

 

[PolishWineP]

It may be that since you are not using kits and haven't had any problems then you are just fine. It's happening on it's own and isn't an issue. You don't rush your wines into the bottles and nature handles everything for you. We've never had any problems with CO2 in a fruit wine. The only trouble we've had with that is rushing one of our first batches of rhubarb into bottles and getting a lot of sediment. CO2 is a bigger issue with kits if you're trying to follow the time line to bottling. So for you, no problems = no worries!

 

[Berrywine]

Has anyone ever used vaccum to degas? seems to work pretty well for me.


berry

 

[NorthernWinos]

Thanks PWP...I want to make a kit wine someday, so will worry about it then...but will still read this Thread and try to learn a bit more about it....&gt; later

 

[MedPretzel]

I have made practically only scratch wines, and I have to degas. I do, however, lack patience, so that might be a reason why I have to degas.

I predominantly use Lalvin 72B-1122 or Red Star Montrachet yeasts. I have noticed much more gas in scratch wines with Premier Cuvee yeast. Coincidence? Maybe, I don't know.


I have used the vacuvin. Great on 1-gallon batches, but it's tedious on the 5 and 6-gallon batches. It works great, though.


I have a wine-whip, which I hate. It broke twice already, and it's just getting shorter and shorter - I still can use it.


Santa is possibly bringing a Fizz-Ex for me this christmas. At least it was on my FVW wish-list.

The best method is most likely to wait it out, in my opinion. You save your arms, your drill, and your keep your frustration level low that way. But again, I'm very impatient, so I just take it upon myself and degas. All methods - vacuvin, stirring, waiting - work fine. It's just the time issue.


You bring up a good point with the O2-introduction into the wine. Yes, you are possibly bringing O2 into the wine, but it's actually quite minimal. You degas for let's say 5 minutes, and replace the airlock (this is how i do it, at least). It's 5 minutes of O2 contact. And you're getting the CO2 out.


How to tell if the wine needs degassing? Hard to say. Sometimes there are little bubbles of CO2 on the sides of the carboy (like a coke/pepsi/soda), and that way you can tell. Often times, the wine has difficulty clearing, which could also lead you to believe that it's a clearing issue - but it's often CO2 suspended. Those are the 2 ways I can think of off the top of my head that you know that you need to degas.

I cringe when I see any air, splashing or frothing at racking, thinking it's air being in contact with the wine.....

This is actually pretty good when you see it do this when you rack your wine. I like to splash a lot. But all in due time. When I am racking off sediment, I splash the wine a lot. I try to kill 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. I know some people may disagree with me on this, and I imagine they have their reasons as well. I like to see frothing when there's sediment, because I feel I am getting rid of not only some gunk, but also some CO2.





Degassing is a tough call, and it's easy to be confused about it. Don't worry, though. It seems your method is working for you, and that is all what we're after.





CJJ Berry explains, (p. 26)


"...until finally the solution in the trap remains poised and no more gas passes. It is then a good idea to move the jar into a warm room for five or six days to see if any further activity develops. If not, it can be assumed that the fermentation has finished... but make sure that your cork or bung is still air-tight and that gas is not escaping through it of from its junction with the tube of the trap, or naturally the trap will not work."


The "trap" is the airlock.





Hope this helps!





Martina

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

To help alleviate any concern about exposing wine to the air during stirring
(with whatever method), you can time degassing to coincide with rackings
when you know you want to add metabisulfite. Rack off into a carboy with
the sulfite dose mixed in a small amount of water, then do your stirring. The
sulfite is there mixed into the wine to protect from oxidation.

Bill

 

[PolishWineP]

Well there you go! Thanks, Bill! So practical!

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

PWP, you're welcome

 

[peterCooper]

It does seem that gas and clarity are related. I idn't degas my first kit (Pinot
Grigio) as well as I might and it has a little haze as a result. A recent Murray
River I beat to a pulp (awful pun there). Carity is superb and no gas!