when good wines gone bad

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joe, did that kit come with the dextrose for chapitalization?
I received my Brunello Selection kit today. It came with EC1118, which I thought was kind of boring.
 
Last edited:
kit content

yes it did,, it amounted to when rehydrated to 1.5 quarts of simple syrup so I added a full 2 QUARTS.remember 1118 is generic and is a fix all ,don't play it down, it's a very rewarding yeast and forgiving.:db
 
Last edited:
Tweaks and response

HERE'S A FOOT NOTE :hugFOR ALL OF YOU OUT THERE WHO FOLLOW THIS OR ANY OF MY OTHER THREADS,I HAVE LEARNED WHAT CAN BE DONE AND WHAT SHOULDN'T,T BE TRIED:slp FROM READING AND COMMON SENSE,THE REASONING FOR ME NOT TO GET TO FANCY WITH THE YEAST IS AS FOLLOWS:mny I'M TRYING TO MAKE OR CHANGE A FLAVOR PROFILE OF A SPECIFIC WINE TYPE OR STYLE IF MY YEAST IS ABLE TO CHANGE IT'S PROFILE THEN I'M NO LONGER IN CONTROL.ON THE OTHER HAND IF I WAS MAKING A STRAIGHT UP WINE KIT OR JUICE DOESN'T MATTER ,THEN I COULD CHOSE A YEAST TO ENHANCE THE FINAL OUTCOME .LORI,YOU AND I ARE NOT BORING!

IT'S THE SAME THING AS KNOWING WHAT THE IMPACT TO A WINES STRUCTURE WITH THE ADDITION OF RAISINS IN THE PRIMARY OR SECONDARY OR ADDING SIMPLE SYRUP IN THE PRIMARY OR AT THE FINISH OR SHOULD IT BE DONE AT ALL .BLENDING STRAIGHT UP WINES IS NO BIG DEAL,HOWEVER BLENDING FRUIT TO WINE IN THE PRIMARY OR RAISINS IN THE SECONDARY NOW THAT TAKES THOUGH AS TO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE STRUCTURE OF THE WINE AND HOW THE PARTNER SHIP BETWEEN THE TWO ELEMENTS AND HOW WELL THEY WORK TOGETHER OR NOT!
DOING YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU START THE NEXT KIT OR JUICE IS THE WAY TO GO AND IF YOU ARE CONSISTENT AT YOUR KNOWLEDGE GATHERING TECHNIQUES ,THEN YOU'LL ENJOY THE ART OF WINE MAKING AND ABOVE ALL ENJOY

THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX
 
Last edited:
All good advice, joe. It's been a year now since I started making wine, and this is the most fun I've ever had thinking and planning.
I've learned so much from you and your tweak threads. Keep em' coming!
 
Sharaz viognier,,cru 6 week kit

I HAD SITTING IN THE BACKGROUND A CRU-PREMIUM KIT,IT JUST SO HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME LONE STAR LORI HAD JUST FINISHED THIS KIT AND I HAD THE GOOD CHANCE OF INTERCEPTING A TASTING,YOU'LL FIND OUR FEED BACK ON (THINKING OUT SIDE THE BOX THREAD) SO HERE I GO DOING MINE WITH A FEW TOUCHES OF MY OWN,I WAS INSPIRE BY HERE CREATION DO TO THE FACT THE LORI IS SPOT ON WITH HER PROCESS SO WHAT I HAD WHAT WAS JUST ABOUT WHAT CRU WANTED IT FOR FINISH OUT LIKE,AND IT WAS SPOT ON.
EVERY ITEM OR STEP IN THE PROCESS IS JUST ABOUT STEP BY STEP AND THAT'S OK,WHERE I STRAYED OFF THE PATH IS I BOOSTED UP MY ABV,TO A LITTLE OVER 1.10 ,SOAKED THE GRAPE PACK IN HEATED WATER FOR 15 MINUTES,STRAINED OF THE FPAC AND SPRING WATER THAT'S IT,I CAN ADJUST IF NEED TO LATER(THE GRAPE PACK I WHICH I WASN'T IMPRESSED WITH )AND ADDED 1 GALLON OF WATER BUT FIRST I WANTED THIS LUSCIOUS TASTE TO COME THROUGH,FOLLOW THE PROCESS....:db ..TOTAL 6 GALLONS ON THE NOSE!

IMG_20140330_122710081.jpg

IMG_20140728_132604638.jpg

IMG_20140728_132639615.jpg

IMG_20140728_132954958.jpg

IMG_20140728_134037405.jpg

IMG_20140728_134638195.jpg

IMG_20140728_134410423.jpg

IMG_20140728_134341215.jpg

IMG_20140728_135136682.jpg

IMG_20140728_134920374.jpg
 
Sharaz viognier,,cru 6 week kit

CRU KIT CONTINUED,YOU NO THE BASICS BENTONITE IN THE BEGINNING ADD THE JUICE PACK,THEN TAKE YOUR READINGS AND ADJUST IF YOU WANT TO WE DID,GOOD STIRRING ALL THE WHILE,ADD THE YEAST, WE STAYED WITH EC1118 DIDN'T WANT TO CHANGE TO MUCH AT THIS JUNCTURE ,ADDED TWO PACKS OF OAK,AND THEN THE GRAPE PACK WHICH WE REHYDRATE,PLACED OUR NOTES ON OUR HANGING TAG AND COVERED.NOW WE WAIT.:dg

IMG_20140728_134428894.jpg

IMG_20140728_134638195.jpg

IMG_20140728_134920374.jpg

IMG_20140728_135136682.jpg

IMG_20140728_135558934.jpg

IMG_20140728_135611139.jpg

IMG_20140728_135741110.jpg

IMG_20140728_140900812.jpg

IMG_20140728_143110785_HDR.jpg

IMG_20140728_143203026.jpg
 
I agree with you on the grape skins. I hadn't done a kit with them before and didn't expect them to have to be rehydrated. I kind of questioned why they couldn't be just added to the juice as-is. After all, they would rehydrate on their own in the primary.
 
fpac,???????????????

I believe that in the beginning when I tasted one it actually had the same flavor as a raisin? after rehydrate not to much change in the fpac except the piece I took out to taste was a little sweeter but that's all. They must have had a reason, but what a good way of getting read of pulp instead of feeding it to pigs and reintroducing it to the soil. Make some money off it, we'll see how this plays out I must also state that the aroma is great.:HB
day one of fermentation reading, added simple syrup ( to boost abv),took reading, took ph reading, added both packages of oak,
lets recap. Started off with the bentonite and warm water, added grape juice, took sg added ec1118 yeast to the mix., rehydrate in warm water the dried raisin pack, strained out the water put the fpac in the mix, cover tag.now we wait.:wy go back and review the pics.
 
Last edited:
Cru /sharaz /viognier

I would like to take besides that for all you beginning winemakers to make some sense as to what and how CRU was striving for with the ingredients in this kit and to what end. I'll break it down the way I see it As Follows;

first , let's talk about the blind, the primary package consists of a blend of Shiraz and the VIOGNIER.
Partners: your remember way back when I wrote about partners and how wines work together with each other or not, this is a balanced blend I think it's a 65/35 Shiraz / VIOGNIER, there's enough Shiraz to let you know that I'm the leader taste my fruit and of the VIOGNIER is the silent partner adding accent to the finish with a semi-dry bright bite. These two in concert with each other are excellent cru, knew what they set out to accomplish and they did just that.

Second: a concert of Oak, the next step was adding acidity and structure to forms of Oak immediate toast in the heavy toast, but is it enough ? I think so – or not? Will it overpower the partners? We'll find out! I will add tannins when the primary is finished just to create mouth feel and not to overpower.

Third : a grape pack, interesting intervention they completely dehydrated a grape pack. I rehydrate this pack in warm water and let it set I also tasted it resiny by any standard. Yet still hard to the touch I believe this is what and how they started to form the structure and body.

Fourth: yeast, they tried to do nothing fancy here , this one is a workhorse a yeast with good ester qualities a strong performer know matter what the climate is or the capabilities of the winemaker and that is why most wine maker manufacture of kits use EC 1118, it's a high yield yeast that can tolerate high alcohol content and has good ester qualities as well as other natural characteristics that's why most manufacturers use it, don't play EC 1118 down it has its functions.

Fifth: why did they float the alcohol volume? Look at the instructions as I posted see how they go (from and to) lots of room to bring the alcohol level up to balance out Oak and the partners, don't be afraid to increase the ABV if you have good control of your process. Always know your limitations and if you don't ask.


The sauce: I have always stated to think of for one juice or kit as a basic sauce and you're the Chef, we have rules to follow but we can still bend them at will and be creative and have a blast, just my thoughts. This one with all its complexities is no different than when I started out seven years ago writing about (when good wines bad) it shows how far these manufacturers of kits have come to be creative and to think outside the box and to give you a very pleasurable experience in making wine..


go back and review the pics
 
Last edited:
Wineexpert Shiraz Kit

Here is our kit that we received from Wineexpert. This kit had the bulk of the items listed below included (we added the Corinth grapes, simple syrup, different yeast, and extra tannins).
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
The box includes the following: [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Large bag of juice[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· 1 Lb Corinth Grapes (we crushed them)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· 1 Package of ICV-D254 (this kit came with a red-star premium yeast packet, I choose this packet. More info below.)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· 2 Ball Jars of Simple Syrup (each ball jar equates to 1% abv)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· bentonite[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Metabisulphite[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· Sorbate[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Chitosan-(Fining Agent)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· 1 Hungarian Oak[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]1 tbsp wine tannins[/FONT]
The Process:[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Now, we take the SG reading. We’re at 1.080. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Now, here comes the Hungarian oak! [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
· Here comes the fun part. YEAST! This kit came with a Red Star Premier yeast. I however choose to use ICV-D254. Cover with a towel and wait 5-7 days, gently punching down the grape skins. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
These are the characteristics and the reasons why we choose the yeast we choose:
ICV-D254 (when used with Shiraz) makes wine that has a big mouth feel and rounding of tannins, intense fruit, more dried then fresh along with a nice spicy quality if present in the fruit. Helps with color, stability and its useful for adding body to blends.

1 Wineexpert Shiraz kit.jpg

2 kit contents.jpg

3 Corinth Grapes.jpg

4 yeast.jpg

5 bentonite.jpg

6 stir.jpg

7 SG reading.jpg

8 chapitalization.jpg

9 add yeast.jpg

10 add oak.jpg
 
(Continued)I found these grapes at a place called trader Joe's,semi-high end store in cherry hill, I'm sure if you look you can fine some interesting grape types at Kruger's or wegmens ,these are also none as zante's currents which you can find in most stores,

11 one lb of corinth grapes.jpg

12 gently crushed grapes.jpg

13 tag the wines.jpg
 
Last edited:
Oh I can't wait to see how this plays out. I think the yeast substation is going to change everything. Curious, where did you buy the grapes? I've never seen them in a local grocery?


Sent from my iPad Air using Wine Making
 
sharaz continued

2 DAYS LATER THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR. A STEADY FERMENTATION AND A GOOD CAP.........:pic.......WHAT I'VE DONE HERE IS NO DIFFERENT THEN A HIGH END KIT MAKER,PICKED MY BASE, CREATED MY FPAC,USED THE YEAST I WANTED FOR THE CHARASTICS I WANTED THE WINE TO HAVE,USED BOTH OAK CHIPS (SUPPLIED) I WILL ADD SOME WINE TANNINS IN THE SECONDARY AND FILTERED WATER........AT A COST OF 59.99 FOR THE KIT...SO LETS SEE HOW WE FINISH..STAY TOONED...........................:h.ALWAYS REMEMBERING BALANCE IS THE KEY I WANT THIS WINE TO FINISH OUT FRUITFUL WITH DECENT BODY A EARLY DRINKING RED WITH A TOUCH OF WOOD.:mny

IMG_20140816_132107459 - Copy.jpg

IMG_20140816_132107459.jpg
 
Last edited:
Sharaz viognier,,cru 6 week kit

shiraz continued...............................:spm
by using a strainer I'm able without any problems removing the oak and grapes which I added to the base wine notice the nice cap of elements before removal, that's what you want to see, take a reading and then move on.:mnynow i'll let this sit for one week and then rérack and get it ready for chems and fining. Good to go.:h

IMG_20140728_143110785_HDR.jpg

IMG_20140728_143203026.jpg
 
Last edited:
Punching down the cap

NO ,IT WASN'T NECESSARY THE AMOUNT OF GRAPES WAS 1 LB. JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE A TASTE DIFFERENCE NOTHING MORE,BUT IT WILL ADD A FRUIT FORWARD TASTE PROFILE TO THE SHARAZ,IT'S STRANGE HOW THAT HAPPENS BUT IT'S THE WAY I CREATE THE SAUCE.:db
 
Sharaz viognier,,cru 6 week kit

with black corithian grape fpac..follow the precess at this time were in the secondary and degassing but soon will bottle .follow the process and see how we got here.

IMG_20140330_122710081.jpg

IMG_20140728_132613537.jpg

IMG_20140728_132954958.jpg

IMG_20140728_134037405.jpg

IMG_20140728_134341215.jpg

IMG_20140728_134410423.jpg

IMG_20140728_134428894.jpg

IMG_20140728_134638195.jpg

IMG_20140728_134920374.jpg

IMG_20140728_135136682.jpg
 
Sharaz continued

FOLLOWING THE PROCESS SO FAR???????:mny
INTO THE SECONDARY IT WENT TO DEGASS AND BECOME VERY TASTY ,WILL FOLLOW UP IN A WEEK OR TWO......................:re

IMG_20140728_135558934.jpg

IMG_20140728_135611139.jpg

IMG_20140728_135741110.jpg

IMG_20140728_140900812.jpg

IMG_20140728_143110785_HDR.jpg

IMG_20140728_143203026.jpg
 
Last edited:
differences................

:db....................will send you a sample tasting when I put together the rest of you treats from this jersey boy.......yours jp:sm
 

Latest posts

Back
Top