when good wines gone bad
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OMG!
I think Joe uses a speech to text editor........
Sometimes I think he also just wants to see if we are listening!
I think Joe uses a speech to text editor........
Sometimes I think he also just wants to see if we are listening!
joeswine
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minto messages
GOOD MORNING
HERE A SHORT MESSAGE ON WINE TASTING,VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL TASTING,WHAT ARE THESE AND HOW DO THEY DIFFER?
IN A VERTICAL TASTING ,DIFFERENT VINTAGES OF THE SAME WINE TYPE FROM THE SAME WINERY ARE TASTED.THIS EMPHASIZES DIFFERENCES BETWEEN VARIOUS VINTAGES.
HORIZONTAL TASTING,THE WINES ARE ALL FROM THE SAME VINTAGE BUT ARE FROM DIFFERENT WINERIES.KEEPING WINE VARIETY OR TYPE AND WINE REGION THE SAME HELPS EMPHASIZE DIFFERENCES IN WINERY STYLES.
THESE CAN MAKE VERY INTERESTING WINE MEETINGS IF YOU HAVE A GROUP OR A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION WITH A FEW GOOD WINE MAKERS.
GOOD MORNING
HERE A SHORT MESSAGE ON WINE TASTING,VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL TASTING,WHAT ARE THESE AND HOW DO THEY DIFFER?
IN A VERTICAL TASTING ,DIFFERENT VINTAGES OF THE SAME WINE TYPE FROM THE SAME WINERY ARE TASTED.THIS EMPHASIZES DIFFERENCES BETWEEN VARIOUS VINTAGES.
HORIZONTAL TASTING,THE WINES ARE ALL FROM THE SAME VINTAGE BUT ARE FROM DIFFERENT WINERIES.KEEPING WINE VARIETY OR TYPE AND WINE REGION THE SAME HELPS EMPHASIZE DIFFERENCES IN WINERY STYLES.
THESE CAN MAKE VERY INTERESTING WINE MEETINGS IF YOU HAVE A GROUP OR A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION WITH A FEW GOOD WINE MAKERS.
joeswine
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Color the wine
In wwhite wines, poor-color problems are often due to oxidation ,, resulting in a browning effect .to event browning during winemaking ,always protect your white juice and wine from air, and adequately sulfite. In my wines,. The typical problem is either a color that is too light or too dark. Alight color in Reds may be the result of a short maceration. When making wine from grapes, or from over filtering. A dark color may be the result of a maceration. That was too long ,, especially if using dark-juice grapes such as alicante........... T be continued....
In wwhite wines, poor-color problems are often due to oxidation ,, resulting in a browning effect .to event browning during winemaking ,always protect your white juice and wine from air, and adequately sulfite. In my wines,. The typical problem is either a color that is too light or too dark. Alight color in Reds may be the result of a short maceration. When making wine from grapes, or from over filtering. A dark color may be the result of a maceration. That was too long ,, especially if using dark-juice grapes such as alicante..
......... T be continued....
joeswine
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Color and control
It seems to me that this is not a big problem with cellar dwellers ,color is best controlled throughout all wine making stages to achieve desired results., in general, one will always lighten from the start, fermentation to a finished warming due to sedimentation of phenolic compound ,which Color, finding infiltration.
when wine have started browning due to oxidation can be somewhat , corrected,by using acasein treatment .at the rate of 50 ppm , the penny on the extent of the Brown. This should be followed up with an Benoite treatment ,at this point you may strip the wine of some of its aroma. Question, how many of you have ever run into this problem? In some cases this does not turn out to be noticeable, until you start to pour it from the bottle.
Four-color gremlins can be corrected through blending .choose a dark- colored wine when blending with light-colored wines. For best results. If the color is excessively light, meaning to use wine made from alicante, for example , which is a very deep color. If the color is too dark, you can also let wine age until the desired color is obtained, or you can filter the wine after finding. Aging and filtering always light the color ..................to be continued
its amazing no matter how much i proof read i still make written mistakes.......getting old
It seems to me that this is not a big problem with cellar dwellers ,color is best controlled throughout all wine making stages to achieve desired results., in general, one will always lighten from the start, fermentation to a finished warming due to sedimentation of phenolic compound ,which Color, finding infiltration.
when wine have started browning due to oxidation can be somewhat , corrected,by using acasein treatment .at the rate of 50 ppm , the penny on the extent of the Brown. This should be followed up with an Benoite treatment ,at this point you may strip the wine of some of its aroma. Question, how many of you have ever run into this problem? In some cases this does not turn out to be noticeable, until you start to pour it from the bottle.
Four-color gremlins can be corrected through blending .choose a dark- colored wine when blending with light-colored wines. For best results. If the color is excessively light, meaning to use wine made from alicante, for example , which is a very deep color. If the color is too dark, you can also let wine age until the desired color is obtained, or you can filter the wine after finding. Aging and filtering always light the color ..................to be continuedits amazing no matter how much i proof read i still make written mistakes.......getting old
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joeswine
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Adding color to a wine
ANOTHER EFFECTIVE METHOD THAT WILL ADD COLOR TO A RED WINE IS THE USE OF POWDER GRAPE SKINS .ADD POWDERED GRAPE SKIN TO LIGHT COLORED RED WINES AT A RATE OF FIVE G/HL .REPEATED DOSAGE UNTIL YOU HAVE OBTAIN THE DESIRED COLOR. MAKE THESE ADDITIONS BEFORE FINDING THE WINE TO AVOID HAVING ANY BOTTLE SEDIMENTATION DUE TO THE GRAPE SKIN POWDER ..
ISN'T IT IS INTERESTING HOW MANY DIFFERENT THINGS YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL THE WINE IN AS MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS THAT YOU CAN THINK OF, YOU ARE THE MASTER , IT'S THE TOOL . YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO USE THE TOOL OR TOOLS IN OUR TOOLBOX.
ANOTHER EFFECTIVE METHOD THAT WILL ADD COLOR TO A RED WINE IS THE USE OF POWDER GRAPE SKINS .ADD POWDERED GRAPE SKIN TO LIGHT COLORED RED WINES AT A RATE OF FIVE G/HL .REPEATED DOSAGE UNTIL YOU HAVE OBTAIN THE DESIRED COLOR. MAKE THESE ADDITIONS BEFORE FINDING THE WINE TO AVOID HAVING ANY BOTTLE SEDIMENTATION DUE TO THE GRAPE SKIN POWDER ..
ISN'T IT IS INTERESTING HOW MANY DIFFERENT THINGS YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL THE WINE IN AS MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS THAT YOU CAN THINK OF, YOU ARE THE MASTER , IT'S THE TOOL . YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO USE THE TOOL OR TOOLS IN OUR TOOLBOX.
joeswine
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Sangria the cornucopia of flavors
Going back, we talked about wines , blending wines , blending fruit wines blending fruit and now we've come full circle .
The ultimate and fruit wine blending is the sangria, from it's humble roots is paying, sangria has grown to become a popular, refreshing party drink around the world .in the United States, Singler was first tasted at 1964 world's fair in New York. The Spanish world arena services from the wine punch to its visitors ,in history was made!
Sangria is based on the traditional rep wine punch popular across Europe for hundreds of years. The plunge base would be Claret. Claire is the British term for Bordeaux , , France. This rewinds traditionally made from a blend ofCabernet Sauvignon and Merlot . Branding for would be added to the red wine punch for flavor in Ithe 1700s and 1800s Claret could be found at parties of all sizes .
Why the emphasis on wine? , remember that until modern times were was often unsafe to drink. people would be, w, watch the horses, an and. milk was considered BB from only . that meant and for toddlers , that the only safe liquid to drink had at least some alcohol in it.the alcohol would take care of any bacteria and drink . most households need someone from fruits and berries in the area . . It was very. Natural to lighten things up by adding more spices , fruits and other items to the wine to give it a different flavor .
Two years ago my wife and Iwent to Arizona to visit her cousin in old Scottsdale , we were out on the veranda she was serving brunch and on the side table was a sangria , and white sangria , if I can remember correctly . The ingredients were a sema semi dry white, club soda,sliced green grapes , simple syrup tart apple slices peeled , with orange slices alongside , at first I didn't no what to think of it then after the second glass I could have delvedelve, it was clean refreshing and will with Mexican food. She was serving perfect wine for the occasion say.
To be continued
S
Going back, we talked about wines , blending wines , blending fruit wines blending fruit and now we've come full circle .
The ultimate and fruit wine blending is the sangria, from it's humble roots is paying, sangria has grown to become a popular, refreshing party drink around the world .in the United States, Singler was first tasted at 1964 world's fair in New York. The Spanish world arena services from the wine punch to its visitors ,in history was made!
Sangria is based on the traditional rep wine punch popular across Europe for hundreds of years. The plunge base would be Claret. Claire is the British term for Bordeaux , , France. This rewinds traditionally made from a blend ofCabernet Sauvignon and Merlot . Branding for would be added to the red wine punch for flavor in Ithe 1700s and 1800s Claret could be found at parties of all sizes .
Why the emphasis on wine? , remember that until modern times were was often unsafe to drink. people would be, w, watch the horses, an and. milk was considered BB from only . that meant and for toddlers , that the only safe liquid to drink had at least some alcohol in it.the alcohol would take care of any bacteria and drink . most households need someone from fruits and berries in the area . . It was very. Natural to lighten things up by adding more spices , fruits and other items to the wine to give it a different flavor .
Two years ago my wife and Iwent to Arizona to visit her cousin in old Scottsdale , we were out on the veranda she was serving brunch and on the side table was a sangria , and white sangria , if I can remember correctly . The ingredients were a sema semi dry white, club soda,sliced green grapes , simple syrup tart apple slices peeled , with orange slices alongside , at first I didn't no what to think of it then after the second glass I could have delvedelve, it was clean refreshing and will with Mexican food. She was serving perfect wine for the occasion say. To be continued
S
joeswine
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Sangria
Looking more specifically, , this region was actively planted with vineyard by the Romans when they swept through about 2000 BC .is very active wine shipping trade, prominently began ,with a beautiful wines of Spain, supply much of Rome's drinking desires .red grapes did very well here and have enjoyed ever since. The locals named their wine punch , and all the varieties a sangria .
So far have to my collection, . One is a camare sangria , . The other and Orange Seville sangria both are very refreshing and delightful. I'm ready for the summer
In the south of Spain sangria often called zurra. this version of sangria is created with peach or nectarine . .
Sangria. Simple re-created from Red wine , fruit juices,, soda water, with the addition sometimes of Brandy. to the sangria,
use good quality wine if at all possible let it chill overnight . . This lets the from flavors blend into the drink . . Try to use Rojas to get the authentic Spanish flavor, , but definitely choose something you like - you're the one drinking ! in the morning, for your sangria to pitcher full ice cubes, garnish with fresh fruit enjoy . traditionally sangria pitchers have a pinched lip so that the fruit and other solids to plop into the glass/O
This is the story of sangria, be creative and design one of your own to your liking into your taste ........
Looking more specifically, , this region was actively planted with vineyard by the Romans when they swept through about 2000 BC .is very active wine shipping trade, prominently began ,with a beautiful wines of Spain, supply much of Rome's drinking desires .red grapes did very well here and have enjoyed ever since. The locals named their wine punch , and all the varieties a sangria .
So far have to my collection, . One is a camare sangria , . The other and Orange Seville sangria both are very refreshing and delightful. I'm ready for the summer
In the south of Spain sangria often called zurra. this version of sangria is created with peach or nectarine . .
Sangria. Simple re-created from Red wine , fruit juices,, soda water, with the addition sometimes of Brandy. to the sangria,
use good quality wine if at all possible let it chill overnight . . This lets the from flavors blend into the drink . . Try to use Rojas to get the authentic Spanish flavor, , but definitely choose something you like - you're the one drinking ! in the morning, for your sangria to pitcher full ice cubes, garnish with fresh fruit enjoy . traditionally sangria pitchers have a pinched lip so that the fruit and other solids to plop into the glass/O
This is the story of sangria, be creative and design one of your own to your liking into your taste ........
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shoebiedoo
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JOE, if we could take a step back to layering oak for a second. If I read your post correctly, you add 1 cup of french oak chips durringg the primary fermentation correct? If I were to ad this to secondary would i still ad that much or would I know it down a bit. It will be in secondary for at least 2 weeks. The reason I ask is the package says 4 ounces is good for 24 gallons. Can I get your thoughts on this?
Joe,
I also have a question.
I have a Chardonnay kit wine that is pretty lite in flavor. I want this wine to have a little more brightness or actual Chardonnay flavor.
If a person should add grapefruit or orange zest to such a chardonnay, will this just brighten up the chardonnay and let it still taste like a Chardonnay, or will the wine then become more of a fruit-flavored chardonnay wine? I ask because I would not mind enhancing the flavor of my chardonnay, but I do not want it to become fruit flavored.
Thanks, Joe.
I also have a question.
I have a Chardonnay kit wine that is pretty lite in flavor. I want this wine to have a little more brightness or actual Chardonnay flavor.
If a person should add grapefruit or orange zest to such a chardonnay, will this just brighten up the chardonnay and let it still taste like a Chardonnay, or will the wine then become more of a fruit-flavored chardonnay wine? I ask because I would not mind enhancing the flavor of my chardonnay, but I do not want it to become fruit flavored.
Thanks, Joe.
joeswine
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shoebiedoo
Hi good to hear from you, is this a kit with fresh juice? if you added it to the primary and you have finished fermentation, what does it taste like. I know it's not finished yet but what do taste? Depending on what you have now I would add the same amount to the secondary ,normal, or did I misread something,. What type of wine is this because layering oak can also be done with powdered in the secondary that would add a bit more mouth feel .
Question for you, . I don't see as well as I use capital letters to help me along ,. Is there something wrong with that?
Please stay in touch enjoy the conversation..........
Hi good to hear from you, is this a kit with fresh juice? if you added it to the primary and you have finished fermentation, what does it taste like. I know it's not finished yet but what do taste? Depending on what you have now I would add the same amount to the secondary ,normal, or did I misread something,. What type of wine is this because layering oak can also be done with powdered in the secondary that would add a bit more mouth feel .
Question for you, . I don't see as well as I use capital letters to help me along ,. Is there something wrong with that?
Please stay in touch enjoy the conversation..........
joeswine
joeswine
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Robie
Interesting, taking on the Chardonnay, I have done this myself more than once and it usually always works out for the best ,useing , grapefruit what it does provide a background and only that , So your Chardonnay is a little. Light on taste that's the best way to go. Question what is the volume you talking about ,usually when I put it in Riesling or Chardonnay or a viognier to 6 gallons. I put two grapefruits worth of zest. The results are ,no- it's not fruity, it in the background as talked about earlier on, and if you still like your, Chardonnay , just a tad woody, then have you ever tried liquid oak ,and or powdered oak in combination ,a great mouth feel. Hope I can help please let's talk again
Question, have a little trouble seeing so unless I'm using my editor , . I really prefer to use capital letters, is a rule on this fourm that I can't writing in caps ? If so, please let me know,,,,,,,,,,,S
Hope to hear from you again, yours JP
L
Interesting, taking on the Chardonnay, I have done this myself more than once and it usually always works out for the best ,useing , grapefruit what it does provide a background and only that , So your Chardonnay is a little. Light on taste that's the best way to go. Question what is the volume you talking about ,usually when I put it in Riesling or Chardonnay or a viognier to 6 gallons. I put two grapefruits worth of zest. The results are ,no- it's not fruity, it in the background as talked about earlier on, and if you still like your, Chardonnay , just a tad woody, then have you ever tried liquid oak ,and or powdered oak in combination ,a great mouth feel. Hope I can help please let's talk again
Question, have a little trouble seeing so unless I'm using my editor , . I really prefer to use capital letters, is a rule on this fourm that I can't writing in caps ? If so, please let me know,,,,,,,,,,,
SHope to hear from you again, yours JP
L
shoebiedoo
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Hi good to hear from you, is this a kit with fresh juice? if you added it to the primary and you have finished fermentation, what does it taste like. I know it's not finished yet but what do taste? Depending on what you have now I would add the same amount to the secondary ,normal, or did I misread something,. What type of wine is this because layering oak can also be done with powdered in the secondary that would add a bit more mouth feel .
Question for you, . I don't see as well as I use capital letters to help me along ,. Is there something wrong with that?
Please stay in touch enjoy the conversation..........
CAP's are fine for sure <grin> These are all Juice buckets. I read this thread as they were fermenting so they are all getting chose to 1.010 The chardonnay is at 1.035 and the Malbec is at 1.015. So I'm wondering if I'm better off just waiting till fermentation is complete or ad the chips for during secondary, Not sure which way to go. BTW I think i will end up Zesting the Chardonnay with Grapefruit as you instructed Robie. What a great Idea.
Question for you, in all seriousness, would it help you out if we all used caps on this thread?...just a thought.
Interesting, taking on the Chardonnay, I have done this myself more than once and it usually always works out for the best ,useing , grapefruit what it does provide a background and only that , So your Chardonnay is a little. Light on taste that's the best way to go. Question what is the volume you talking about ,usually when I put it in Riesling or Chardonnay or a viognier to 6 gallons. I put two grapefruits worth of zest. The results are ,no- it's not fruity, it in the background as talked about earlier on, and if you still like your, Chardonnay , just a tad woody, then have you ever tried liquid oak ,and or powdered oak in combination ,a great mouth feel. Hope I can help please let's talk again
Question, have a little trouble seeing so unless I'm using my editor , . I really prefer to use capital letters, is a rule on this fourm that I can't writing in caps ? If so, please let me know,,,,,,,,,,,
Hope to hear from you again, yours JP
L
That is what I hoped you would say. The Chardonnay is a 6 gallon kit. It is the Cellar Craft Washington Chard. Great kit, but I am just wanting a little more flavor to offset the lees aging and stirring process I will do on it in the coming months.
It is oaked some, because I fermented it in a new oak barrel, but it still needs a little more oak. I haven't tried powdered oak ever before.
So, the zest from two grapefruits aged awhile in Vodka or "the other". I can certainly do that!!!
I'll do the zesting on a smaller test sample first. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Ah-h-h-h-h-h. So that;'s why you sometimes do all capital letters. Now I know.
Thanks again, Joe.
joeswine
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robie
firstf you see me using caps.,I'm not at home when typing I m at my office,(dragon is not here yet).
important.....YOU CAN USE THE EXTRACT YOUR MAKING,BUT THAT WILL GIVE MORE FRUIT TO THE FINISH PRODUCT,IF YOU USE THE ZEST (FRESH) DIRECTLY INTO THE WINE,THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE BRIGHT BACKGROUND WERE DISCUSSING.
I USED THE EXTRACT IN MY CAREMERE THIS YEAR AND IT CAME OUT LIKE A BEAUTIFUL SANGRIA,THE USE OF ZEST IS A CHOICE OF TASTE AND CREATIVITY,BUT WHEN I STRICTLY WANT BACKGROUND ,IT COMES STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THE EXTRACT CAN BE USED EITHER WAY BUT WITH DIFFERENT ENDINGS,IN YOUR CASE STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THIS TIME,GOOD TO SEE YOU WANTING TO EXPLORE..YOURS.JP
first
f you see me using caps.,I'm not at home when typing I m at my office,(dragon is not here yet).important.....YOU CAN USE THE EXTRACT YOUR MAKING,BUT THAT WILL GIVE MORE FRUIT TO THE FINISH PRODUCT,IF YOU USE THE ZEST (FRESH) DIRECTLY INTO THE WINE,THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE BRIGHT BACKGROUND WERE DISCUSSING.
I USED THE EXTRACT IN MY CAREMERE THIS YEAR AND IT CAME OUT LIKE A BEAUTIFUL SANGRIA,THE USE OF ZEST IS A CHOICE OF TASTE AND CREATIVITY,BUT WHEN I STRICTLY WANT BACKGROUND ,IT COMES STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THE EXTRACT CAN BE USED EITHER WAY BUT WITH DIFFERENT ENDINGS,IN YOUR CASE STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THIS TIME,GOOD TO SEE YOU WANTING TO EXPLORE..YOURS.JP
joeswine
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Shoebiedoo
ADDING OAK TO THE SECONDARY IS LIKE FINISHING A GREAT DINNER WITH A GOOD WINE ,IT CAN'T HURT,BUT THAT DEPENDS OF THE WINE TYPE,TRY USING A BALANCE IN THE REDS OF POWDERED AND CHIPS ,ADDS TO THE OVERALL MOUTH FEEL,ALSO FOR THE WHITES,LIQUID OAK ADDS JUST THE RIGHT TOUCH,WITH OUT DISTORTING THE COLOR TO MUCH,SECONDARY IS OUR PLAYGROUND....EXPLORE IT..ALSO SEE THE REPLY TO ROBIE ON THE WAY I USE THE EXTRACT/OR ZEST.....REMEMBER EVERYTHING WE DO CAN BE ADJUSTED TO OUR OWN TASTE ..EVEN IN THE FINISHED PRODUCT......HAVE YOU EVER TRIED FRANCES FORD COPPULLAS WINES? EVEN,BALANCED AND THERE CHARD IS EXCELLENT,AROUND $12.00 BOTTLE,THIS IS A GREAT COMBINATION OF WINE ,OAK AND FRUIT ...YOURS JPNO, COMING BACK TO ME MY (CAPS)COMPUTER TAKES CARE OF THAT ..I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY .SOMEONE WOULD GET ALL UPSET TOWARDS ME USING THAT TYPE OF WRITING..?
ADDING OAK TO THE SECONDARY IS LIKE FINISHING A GREAT DINNER WITH A GOOD WINE ,IT CAN'T HURT,BUT THAT DEPENDS OF THE WINE TYPE,TRY USING A BALANCE IN THE REDS OF POWDERED AND CHIPS ,ADDS TO THE OVERALL MOUTH FEEL,ALSO FOR THE WHITES,LIQUID OAK ADDS JUST THE RIGHT TOUCH,WITH OUT DISTORTING THE COLOR TO MUCH,SECONDARY IS OUR PLAYGROUND....EXPLORE IT..ALSO SEE THE REPLY TO ROBIE ON THE WAY I USE THE EXTRACT/OR ZEST.....REMEMBER EVERYTHING WE DO CAN BE ADJUSTED TO OUR OWN TASTE ..EVEN IN THE FINISHED PRODUCT......HAVE YOU EVER TRIED FRANCES FORD COPPULLAS WINES? EVEN,BALANCED AND THERE CHARD IS EXCELLENT,AROUND $12.00 BOTTLE,THIS IS A GREAT COMBINATION OF WINE ,OAK AND FRUIT ...YOURS JP
NO, COMING BACK TO ME MY (CAPS)COMPUTER TAKES CARE OF THAT ..I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY .SOMEONE WOULD GET ALL UPSET TOWARDS ME USING THAT TYPE OF WRITING..?
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first
important.....YOU CAN USE THE EXTRACT YOUR MAKING,BUT THAT WILL GIVE MORE FRUIT TO THE FINISH PRODUCT,IF YOU USE THE ZEST (FRESH) DIRECTLY INTO THE WINE,THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE BRIGHT BACKGROUND WERE DISCUSSING.
I USED THE EXTRACT IN MY CAREMERE THIS YEAR AND IT CAME OUT LIKE A BEAUTIFUL SANGRIA,THE USE OF ZEST IS A CHOICE OF TASTE AND CREATIVITY,BUT WHEN I STRICTLY WANT BACKGROUND ,IT COMES STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THE EXTRACT CAN BE USED EITHER WAY BUT WITH DIFFERENT ENDINGS,IN YOUR CASE STRAIGHT OFF THE FRUIT,THIS TIME,GOOD TO SEE YOU WANTING TO EXPLORE..YOURS.JP
Thanks for that info. I'll just zest directly.
