Other What Is In Those Kits?

[NoSnob]

Rather than hijack a thread about KT in certain kit wines, I am starting a new thread. This is in response to a comment Robie made about the percentage contents of the advertised varietal in wine kits:

"Even commercial wines are not always pure varietal. They can legally add in certain percentages of other varietals. I guess this also happens with kits; I doubt there are any laws that govern the percentages for kits manufacturers."

Robie I have wondered about this too. I asked my LHBS about this and was told that the premium kits are likely to contain mostly the advertised varietal. The unstated implication was that the lower & mid-level kits, well, maybe not so much. It is obvious that kit manufacturers are not bound by the 75% advertised varietal content requirement applicable to wines because kits are juice, not wine.

Even if the kit contained 100% of the advertised varietal (which it likely does not) there is the question of whether its origin is the cited source. So, for example, perhaps a kit wine manufacturer has only Cabernet Sauvignon juice and concentrate in its kit but its source is predominately from bulk California Cab Sauv and not the advertised Lodi Ranch Cab Sauv as indicated on the label. This example is not intended to disparage any specific kit maker.

As consumers, the only recourse any of us has is to buy the product we think best represents that which is labeled. Caveat Emptor! I suspect the kit wine manufacturers are counting on our not being all that discerning. However, I am encouraged that they are forging ahead with the addition of skins to their premium kits.

NS

 

[robie]

I know the Mosti Mondiale Renaissance Australian Chardonnay has a tag on it that says the grapes were sourced from California; likely a very hot zone in California. Just Australian "style", not really from Australia.

I think a California Cab/Sav only has to be 75% Cab/Sav, so who knows what's in the kits that say Cab/Sav.

Regardless, if the better kits are given enough time to really mature, they still taste pretty good, anyway. Just go by what the other home wine makers say about particular kits.

 

[TonyP]

I guess there are labeling laws, but I don't know what they are. I have a MM AllJuice Chardonnay going and the label says the origin is California. I assume it's all Chardonnay. The distributor's website says, "This product offering is a sterile juice product of 100% varietal juice". That sounds clear to me.

The Australian Chardonnay can't be from Australia because MM doesn't source from there. Note, however, that MM describes their Renaissance kits as blended, but not the AllJuice.

When it comes to something like Chianti, though, there are rules. Of course they apply to wine not juice.

I'm OK, though. After all, when I saw the title, I thought it was going to be about some "foreign" matter.

 

[Dugger]

My thought is that the juice portion of the kit must is perhaps as advertised and the concentrate portion is more a blend and perhaps a lower quality than the juice, but who knows. Well, the kit makers do but they do not share this info since it is proprietary - when I visited the Spagnols and WinExpert plants in Vancouver, I asked about this but they smiled and asked if I had any other questions!

 

[robie]

My thought is that the juice portion of the kit must is perhaps as advertised and the concentrate portion is more a blend and perhaps a lower quality than the juice, but who knows. Well, the kit makers do but they do not share this info since it is proprietary - when I visited the Spagnols and WinExpert plants in Vancouver, I asked about this but they smiled and asked if I had any other questions!

Ha! Just the answer I would have expected from them. As long as one likes the results, don't ask!!!

 

[cpfan]

Tim V from Winexpert has commented that WE follows Canadian labelling laws. That means that a Merlot is a certain %age merlot juice/concentrate. I think that the rest is probably chosen to manage price, quality, body, taste, colour (and whatever else).

From conversation with a kit company salesman, the sources and percentages of the not-origin-specific kits change from batch-to-batch due to availability and to keep a consistent product.

I remember being in a winery in Washington State and another couple was told that the Shiraz that they were liking contained a small amount of Viognier whereas the other one didn't. When one of them was indignant that it HAD to mentioned on the label, the server said not when it's below a certain percent. The couple left seeming a bit unhappy. So like Robie said "As long as one likes the results, don't ask".

Steve

 

[NoSnob]

Re Tim V.'s comment about following the Canadian labeling laws:

It is my understanding that the kit wine companies are in no way regulated by any laws governing wine. It has been a while since I saw Tim's comment about WE following Canadian labeling laws. He certainly gave the impression that WE follows the percentage composition laws applicable to labeling wines. (like Steve said) But I think he was more than likely referring to those Canadian laws that regulate the labeling of grape juice since varietal juice for wine kits is regulated as an agricultural/food product.

In other words, I'm not sure Canadian kit wine manufacturers have any laws impacting either the percentage varietal composition or the advertised source of their grape juice. If they do, we consumers seem to be kept in the dark about them. Most of those companies are based in Canada. I know there is a big market for wine kits in Canada but I wonder if the wine kit labeling requirements there are considerably more lax than in the U.S.

About not bothering to question these things if you like the results:
I may like the results but if the wine kit box says it's Cab Sauv from Lodi Ranch and in fact it's only part cab sauv and only part of it is from Lodi Ranch I think I've been snookered.

The only defense I can imagine from the industry is that from year to year they cannot predict what portion of any varietal from a specific location they can in fact source and need flexibility in assembling what is available that meets their quality/taste standards.

NS

 

[Boatboy24]

I would expect that a kit labeled "California Merlot" would have an overwhelming majority of it's juice from CA, but not all. And that juice would likely be from all over the state. But what about a Red Mountain Cabernet Sauvignon? We're getting pretty specific here, not only about the type of grape, but the AVA. I'm sure there are things one could do to a California cab to make it taste like a Red Mountain cab, but if I see "Red Mountain Cabernet", that's what I expect. If it says "Red Mountain STYLE Cabernet", well, that's a whole different story.

Unfortunately, this is an issue with our entire food supply in general. Something can be labeled as "All Natural" or "Nothing Artificial" if it simply meets a low enough percentage. So, despite labeling, you never really know what you're getting. But that's a much larger issue...

 

[rjb222]

We are just starting into a transition period. There are commercial interests behind this but there are also government IE the section that takes care of the labeling content part of the laws and I can not for the life of me come up with the name of that section (old fart syndrome I guess)
Here is a email Ireceivedd pertaining to this very subject. This is a cut and paste as I could not give out the emails of the senders.



WHY ARE THE NAMES CHANGING?

After a recent audit by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, weconducted a full compliance review of all our products. The outcome was changesto our entire naming methodology.



u HOW ARE THE WINES AFFECTED?



They’re not – only the names and some of the designs are changing. Restassured you can expect the same great products and our same high commitment toquality.



u WHAT’S ON THE NUTRITIONAL FACTS TABLE?



All kits will have a Nutritional Facts Table that will state thenutritional information of the kit as packaged, not finished wine. This will beclearly stated to avoid confusion.



u WILL THERE BE OTHER CHANGES TO THE PACKAGING?



We will be adding a qualifying statement, “Made in Canada from ImportedIngredients” to reflect the international sourcing of our grapes andconcentrates while still showing that our kits are manufactured in Canada. Aswell, we’ll be making the content declarations consistent on all packaging andupdating our logo and url.

We will also be taking the opportunity to redesign and refresh some ofour packaging. Stay tuned for more details!



u WHAT IS THE NEW NAMING METHODOLOGY?



We currently source grapes and concentrates from around the world, whichare subject to variances in harvest that are blended out at the plant level toproduce high quality, consistent kits available year-round. Although these kitsare benchmarked and produced in the styles indicated on the label, additionaldetailing is required so that the naming convention is consistent with theingredients that appear in the largest percentage, regardless of time of yearor supply. As a result, we will be adding the word ‘style’ to the names ofcertain kits, depending on their wine tier.



u WHY THE WORD ‘STYLE’?



Style allows us to easily explain the type of wine you can expect toenjoy. It is a familiar winemaking term, as commonly used in both the phrasesOld World style and New World style. Specifically, style refers to thecombination of color, aroma, taste, alcoholic strength, and several otherfactors of a given wine, and is influenced by the grape variety, climate andsoil conditions in the region of production, and the method of vinification.



u WHY DO SOME NAMES HAVE ‘STYLE’ AND OTHERS DON’T?



Sometimes we need to blend our wines in order to provide the highestquality product that reflects the desired style of wine, regardless of source,within the price point of the tier. Wines with ‘style’ in the name will notchange in quality level and will continue to be benchmarked and made with thesame taste and oak profile as the varietals and countries represented.



u DOES THE NEW NAME MEAN THAT MY WINES HAVE NEVER BEENFROM THE VARIETAL OR COUNTRY IN THE PREVIOUS NAME?



No, we are changing the labeling to reflect the main ingredient.Although a product may contain the juice or concentrate from that varietal orcountry, we are flexible in labeling so that we can blend out variances inharvest, allowing us to make our wines consistently available throughout the year.



u WHY ARE ALL OF THE EUROPEAN WINES BEING RENAMED?



As part of the agreement between the European Community and Canada ontrade in wine and spirit drinks, we are proactively abandoning all names ofwines that imply geographical indications prior to any attempts on trademarkprotection, similar to what the industry faced in the 90’s from the Frenchgovernment. In some cases, we will be allowed to use the word ‘style’ whileothers must either claim the varietal source or style, or rename.

Johannisberg Riesling is to be changed to Riesling (style as needed)

Piesporter is to be changed to Piesporter Style

Chianti is to be changed to Sangiovese Merlot (style as needed)

Barolo is to be changed to Nebbiolo (style as needed)

Brunello is to be changed to Sangiovese (style as needed)

Amarone is to be changed to Amarone Style

Valpolicella to be changed to a fanciful name – final details willbe communicated as they are confirmed
There is more to come in the near futre I am told as the governing laws are changed here in Canada.