Transition to Juice Buckets

[derunner]

I have been making wine kits for 1.5 years, I have made some skeeterpee and apple wine. Now I want to try juice buckets this spring. I am thinking 3 or 4 buckets from Chilean grapes.

A guy I know does juice buckets and found a place South of Philly, taste of the vine I think, but I can't find a web site. there are also places 90 -120 mins away if I need to go that far. I understand this place gets frozen juice shipped from Chile.

I am thinking I would try 3 or 4 buckets. I'm thinking a Malbec and Chardonnay. Maybe a Zin, but I am not sure how well know Chile is for Zin. So if you have had good luck with Chilean juice buckets feel free to comment on what was good.

So what do I need to consider for juice buckets? I am guessing I need to get something to check PH and SO2 levels.

Do I need to do MLF? That seems to be common on Chardonnay. Any links on MLF?

Should I buy grape skin packs? Juice buckets don't come with them. Where would I get them?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Derunner,
I've made Chilean Juice buckets with good success, I'm making Malbec and Cab Sav, both really nice, currently being aged in barrels.
This fall, I decided to buy an extra lug of grapes to make my own fresh "grape skin packs", I highly recommend it, the results thus far are incredible!
I took one lug, 36 lbs, destemmed and crushed it, and divided it between 3 buckets and fermented on those skins, the cool part is that you can add opti-red (obviously for reds) to extract more color and flavor from the grapes, rendering a fresh grape quality wine.

*** SIDE NOTE:
A lot of wine makers will say that reds made from juice buckets can be flabby, while whites are better, I don't necessarily agree with that but the reason for this is that the juice bucket manufacturers are in the business of making money, processing the grapes and juice fast, they destem, crush, press, add a little meta to stabilize and yeast, fill the buckets, some may freeze them, and they ship them out.
This destem, crush, press and ferment process is pretty much the same way we make wine from white grapes, however, reds usually benefit from cold soaking and fermenting on the skins, it adds color, flavor, tannins, body, mouth feel and so on, for this reason grape skin packs will improve a wine, but fermenting on 9 or 10 lbs of fresh crushed grapes makes a world of difference.***

You can put Chardonnay through MLF, I highly recommend VP41 or Bacchus, these are some of the best available.
If you do a search on this forum for Malolactic Fermentation you will find a lot of info, look at the articles, there is a decent amount of info on MLF.
Don't hesitate to ask any questions.
I hope this helps!

 

[Julie]

I get Malbec and Zin every spring and both are very good. I do caution that you really need to age for a year to a year and a half for them to really come into their own.

 

[Boatboy24]

I echo Tom's comments. I did my first buckets last spring - Carmenere and Malbec. My source sells 18lb Chilean lugs and I bought one for each bucket. My Carmenere will come out of the Vadai barrel this weekend after a 20 week tour, then the Malbec goes in. They are still young, but I think they are going to be pretty good. I did MLF on both of them using Bacchus.

 

[derunner]

I echo Tom's comments. I did my first buckets last spring - Carmenere and Malbec. My source sells 18lb Chilean lugs and I bought one for each bucket. My Carmenere will come out of the Vadai barrel this weekend after a 20 week tour, then the Malbec goes in. They are still young, but I think they are going to be pretty good. I did MLF on both of them using Bacchus.

Thank you all. Are there methods to de-stem and crush the lugs without buying the specialized equipment to do this for such a small amount of grapes? And do you get the lugs in the same variety as the juice, or are you mixing grapes just to have skins in the ferment?

 

[Boatboy24]

Thank you all. Are there methods to de-stem and crush the lugs without buying the specialized equipment to do this for such a small amount of grapes? And do you get the lugs in the same variety as the juice, or are you mixing grapes just to have skins in the ferment?

I purchased grapes in the same variety as the buckets.

Just do it by hand. I sat out on the deck with a cold beer and destemmed both batches in about an hour. I split each one into two paint strainer bags, then mashed them up with a potato masher. When primary was done, I just removed the bags with sanitized hands and squeezed the bejeezus out of 'em.

 

[derunner]

I purchased grapes in the same variety as the buckets.

Just do it by hand. I sat out on the deck with a cold beer and destemmed both batches in about an hour. I split each one into two paint strainer bags, then mashed them up with a potato masher. When primary was done, I just removed the bags with sanitized hands and squeezed the bejeezus out of 'em.

Thanks, that sounds pretty easy. I had not thought of a potato masher to crush them. I'm not sure if the local place gets grapes. I'll have to do some more checking.

I wonder if raisins would help if I can't get grapes. Or anyone sells jars of grape skins like the kits have in them. From what you and Tom are saying it sounds like the grapes would be for red varieties and that white juice would not need grapes?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Derunner,
Stay away from raisins in the wine, If you in the Hartford ct area for any reason, you could make a trip to M&M in Hartford CT, you could get grapes and buckets. M&M also sells grape skin packs, but to be honest, the quality of the fresh over packaged grapes is night and day!
Whites do not need any grapes or grape skin packs.

 

[derunner]

Derunner,
Stay away from raisins in the wine, If you in the Hartford ct area for any reason, you could make a trip to M&M in Hartford CT, you could get grapes and buckets. M&M also sells grape skin packs, but to be honest, the quality of the fresh over packaged grapes is night and day!
Whites do not need any grapes or grape skin packs.

Pumpkinman,

I have looking at what is available locally in Chilean juice buckets and grapes that I can order. I think I will get.

6 gal Chardonnay
6 gal Sauvignon Blanc
6 gal Malbec
12 gal Zinfandel

I am now thinking I don't want to do an MLF the first time. I think that works, but just makes them more acidic.

I can also get a lug of grapes for the Malbec, but they don't have zinfandel grapes. Would it be using another grape with the zinfandel juice? they have

Cab Franc
Cab Sauv.
Carmenere
Malbec
Merlot
Pinot Noir
Syrah

 

[Pumpkinman]

Derunner,
MLF won't make the wine more acidic, it will make them smoother, and depending on the type of MLB used it will add body and mouthfeel as well.
I'd only use it on the Malbec and Zinfandel, as far as adding grapes to the Zinfandel, I'd probably use Merlot from that list, it will give you the added bonus of fermenting on fresh grapes but not change the flavor profile much.
If you're going to use grapes, make sure that you get a pectinase such as Lallezyme to help break down the pectin, and I would also get Opti-red, it results in red wines with more intense color and better tannin integration. It allows the winemaker to shape harsh polyphenols into smoother, more approachable tannins.
If you follow that with a MLB such as VP41 or Bacchus, you will have a kick a$$ batch of wine!
MLF is a piece of cake, don't be apprehensive about it, if you can get your wine successful through the alcoholic fermentation, you can have a successful MLF.

 

[derunner]

Thanks, Yeah, I was trying to say if I don't do MLF they will be more acidic.

MLF sounds complicated, but I guess I have a couple months to read up on it. Of those, which would you MLF? I could also ferment the 12 gals of zin and then mlf just half of it.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Sorry, I misunderstood.
I'd be more than happy to help you through MLF, I'd put the Zin and Malbec through MLF, and yes, you could very well just add MLB to half of the Zin.

 

[byathread]

I haven't done any juice buckets yet, but I'm wondering what is a reasonable price for a bucket of Chilean juice? Thanks.

 

[derunner]

The ones I am looking at are $53

 

[terroirdejeroir]

Can anybody help me figure out Chilean bucket options in the Midwest? My Sonoma Edition Washington Cab bucket exploded during shipping.

 

[bkisel]

I purchased grapes in the same variety as the buckets.

Just do it by hand. I sat out on the deck with a cold beer and destemmed both batches in about an hour. I split each one into two paint strainer bags, then mashed them up with a potato masher. When primary was done, I just removed the bags with sanitized hands and squeezed the bejeezus out of 'em.

A cold beer! ...

 

[JohnT]

A cold beer! ...

My pop always said .."In order to make a great wine, you must start with a good beer".

In Hungarian circles, one drinks a shot of schnapps in the morning, drinks beer at mid-day, and keeps the wine drinking to the evenings.

I always have a couple of kegs for crush day.

 

[Boatboy24]

A cold beer! ...

It was hot out. And I had just finished cutting the lawn.

Plus what JohnT's pop said...