WineXpert Too sweet! No dry characteristics

[Beachdragon007]

Background - I've been drinking wine and visiting Napa and Sonoma for 4 years. I know enough to be dangerous.


Last night, I went toa local (N.E. Florida) event showcasing Winexpert kit wines.


In my opinion, the wines were good, but much sweeter than commercially available wines. All were made according to directions, with no changes to the instructions.


That being said, I purchased and started a Corvina Classico Di Veneto w/ Crushendo and a Italian Amarone. I am now a winemaker

For those of you use kits, are your results less dry than expected? What do you do to correct?


For my next two wines, I plan on a Barolo and a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.


What deviations from the directions do you typically make?

 

[masta]

Welcome and glad to have you aboard!


I would be curious as to the exactwines you tasted and how long they were aged. For those of us who has been doing this for a while have seen the "kit taste" mentioned on numerous occasions.


This quote is from Tim Vandergrift, Technical Services Manager Winexpert Ltd. and was in response to someone asking about "kit taste" aging out of wine.


"I usually don't contribute to this topic, as my opinion could be construed as somewhat prejudiced (ha ha!) but I wll say one thing: if it ages out, it's not KT ('kit-taste'). 'Kit taste' should be something that kits taste like, always.

If it ages out, it's, GIDMWMYTISHT ('Golly, I drank my wine much younger than I should have-taste'), or perhaps, HUAWTNLWACWT ('Hey, un-aged wine tastes nothing like well-aged commercial wine-taste')"

 

[Beachdragon007]

All the wines I tasted were W.E. kits.


CRUSHENDO" CORVINA CLASSICO DI VENETO

<H6>ITALIAN AMARONE</H6>
<H6>SAUVIGNON BLANC (Was expecting the grassy, grapefruit New Zealand)</H6>
<H6>PINOT NOIR </H6>
<H6>LODI OLD VINES ZINFANDEL (Not bad!)</H6>

<H6>"CRUSHENDO" SANTA YNEZ VALLEY SYRAH (was expecting more of a spicy leathery Australian experience)</H6>
I do believe they were very "fresh", and not aged.






Can someone summarize the WineMaker magazine best kits article?

 

[maize]

Except for the Amarone. The kits you list should all finish dry, I beleive. The Amarone will have more alcohol and a raisiny sweeteness. However, kit wines often show more "fresh fruit". Two reasons for this are 1. most commercial wines have much more oak to them and 2.a lack of aging. You can correct the oakiness by adding cubes or spirals while bulk aging. I usually age my wine 6 months before bottling and try to hold off on most of it until they hit 1 year. I am finding now that my red wines continue to evolve well past 1 year - but it is hard to keep them that long.
I some times help a local wine merchant with wine tastings. Although all the wines they serve in an evening might be dry (all sugars have been fermented), I can get a great many comments about how some of the wines are not dry enough. I have come to realize that they often superimpose the amount of bright fruit on the degree of dryness.A lack of oak also is often perceived as less dry.
My advise to you is to age and use some oak to build your wines toward's your expectations. Both of these are good red wines.

 

[masta]

All the wines I tasted were W.E. kits.


CRUSHENDO" CORVINA CLASSICO DI VENETO

<H6>ITALIAN AMARONE</H6>
<H6>SAUVIGNON BLANC (Was expecting the grassy, grapefruit New Zealand)</H6>
<H6>PINOT NOIR </H6>
<H6>LODI OLD VINES ZINFANDEL (Not bad!)</H6>

<H6>"CRUSHENDO" SANTA YNEZ VALLEY SYRAH (was expecting more of a spicy leathery Australian experience)</H6>
I do believe they were very "fresh", and not aged.




Can someone summarize the WineMaker magazine best kits article?

All of these wines listed should have been aged at least a year and longer for the Amarome, Zin, and Crusheno's before you can really appreciate how good they can be. I am happy to hear you went ahead and started making a few kits yourself and please allow them to mature before comparing the value against the well aged commercial wines.


Another note: Since our wines are aged in the bottle and not in barrels as wineries do I have found that allowing all my red wines to breathefor an hour after being poured into a decanter alsoallows the true character to come out.


Matter of fact I will not drink any of my reds without decanting and if I am bringing a bottle with me to a party I will decant and refill the bottle before leaving the house!Edited by: masta

 

[maize]

I forgot to add, and Masta would agree... Even if you age them, it is worthwhile to decant any of the wines you make for an hour or so - it can make a big difference. I have had wine friends tell me my wine tasted better the second day - and that was one that aged over 1 year by me.

 

[geocorn]

Maize offers some really sage advice. The wine kits are "drinkable" after about 3 months in the bottle, but the Selection kits will improve dramatically with a year of aging. He is also correct about how the oak will impart a more dry taste.


The Sauv. Blanc you tasted was probably the Selection Original and not the Selection Estate NZ Marlborough Sauv.Blanc. There is a huge difference between the two. If you like Kim Crawford, you will like the NZ kit.


I will aslo add that I felt the Crushendo Syrah was the weak sister of the Crushendo's and they are discontinuing it due to lack of grapes. Personally, I am not too disspointed. The other 3 crushendo's are quite nice and age well.

 

[Wade E]

Those are some of the best kits out there that you are starting with BeachDragon. They are also the ones that should age the longest. Unless you are just going to buy commercial until they are done aging I would suggest a mid grade that will get you by and be ready alot sooner so you wont be eager to break into the good stuff prematurely.
Hey George, what wine would you recommend for someone who likes Cindy Crawford!

 

[geocorn]

That would probably be either the Mouton Rothschild or Dom Perignon 1956. I don't imagine her as a cheap anything!

 

[Wade E]

 

[rexmor]

Masta, if I'm interpreting the TV quote right, he's saying that what I would characterize as "kit wine" taste is really just drinking the kitwines too young? I've made four Selection and one Crushendo WE kits, all now between six and seven months old. They all have a strange taste which is hard to describe, but it's almost like a preserved fruit overtone...it's actually more noticeble than any varietal characteristic. I've done lots of wine country touring [in four different countries], and since I have a good friend who is the largest wine retailer in Los Angeles, I've been able toattend barrel tastings of young wines on several occasions. The odd taste of these young kitsdoesn't seem to melike the taste of a young commercial wine, so I guess I would disagree with himthat there is a "wine kit" taste. Nevertheless,I'm veryhopeful that it is a transitional issueand will dissipate with time.




If this is the case, I think WE does itself a disservice by making the statement that their wine is drinkable at six months. If I had been able to try a six month old wine when I started, I probably wouldn't have even started a second kit.

 

[geocorn]

Rexmor,


This is where an individuals taste comes into play. For 90% of my customers, they are extremely satisfied with a 3 month old home made wine and when I got started, I too, was sastified. As a result, I would estimate that 80-90% of all home made kit wines are consumed within 1 year of bottling.


The rest of the kit wine makers show patience and are rewarded for such, but not everyone has the same taste or expectations. As such, it isthe most difficult part of my job. Getting a wine maker matched up with the right wine kits. The more wine I make and the more I drink, the more I learn about wines and the more discriminating my pallet has become.


I try to emphasize patience, but most of my advice tends to fall on deaf ears.

 

[Wade E]

Rexmor, just out of curiosity, have you tried the Cellar Craft grape pack kits and experienced this KT also, or is it just the WE for you?

 

[jobe05]

Rexmor,


This is where an individuals taste comes into play. For 90% of my customers, they are extremely satisfied with a 3 month old home made wine and when I got started, I too, was sastified. As a result, I would estimate that 80-90% of all home made kit wines are consumed within 1 year of bottling.


The rest of the kit wine makers show patience and are rewarded for such, but not everyone has the same taste or expectations. As such, it isthe most difficult part of my job. Getting a wine maker matched up with the right wine kits. The more wine I make and the more I drink, the more I learn about wines and the more discriminating my pallet has become.


I try to emphasize patience, but most of my advice tends to fall on deaf ears.

You couldn't have hit the nail more on the head if you used an air nailer George. Before 2 years ago I always bought red wine and ordered red wine out at dinner. Since I have started making wine, either my pallet has changed, or my true love for the taste of wine lays with off dry white wines. So I beleive your theory that matching wines with taste is more important than some realize.Edited by: jobe05

 

[rexmor]

No, I've only made WE kits so far. And, I should state that the KT is only in the red wines. I've made two white kits so far without experiencing this. In fact, I've found that the Estate Pinot Gris even at six monthsis an excellent wine challenging commercial wines selling in the $20 range.


Say guys, at the risk of being a smart aleck "spelling police" type person, "palate" is the sense of taste, while "pallet" is a platform for carrying goods.

 

[masta]

Unless you have a really big tongue full of taste buds then you might need a pallet!

 

[jobe05]

Say guys, at the risk of being a smart aleck "spelling police" type person, "palate" is the sense of taste, while "pallet" is a platform for carrying goods.

Come on...............


Go back and look at my pictures........


This figure of mine didn't come from a sense of taste..................


Nope.............


It's only a platform to carry the goods to the bread basket.......

 

[geocorn]

I stand corrected. I should have typed palate instead of pallet. When you handle the number of pallets that I do, the spelling of pallet comes first to the mind.

 

[Beachdragon007]

I just checked my wine storage.


158 bottles of california, italian, spanish, and new zealand's $10-50 offernings. (And a few gems hiddedn here and there).


I'm going to add oak to the carboy and age for 1 year prior to release.

 

[Dean]

For the most part, WE is the only manufacturer of wine kits that "the few who can taste it" people taste the "kit taste" in. I can taste a hint of it, and it does age out mostly. My Luna Rossa took about 18 months, and there is only the slightest hint of it. I would try some red kits from other manufacturers. There is the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli series, Cellar Craft Showcase, RJS En Primeur or Cellar Classic Winery Series, and Vineco Kenridge Showcase, or founders series.

I make a whole lot of the RJS series of kits, and Cellar Craft as well. I'm just starting to try to the Vineco kits, but tastes I have had at my LHBS have been extremely promising. Vineco is a sister company to WE.

Dean