WineXpert to stir MM - or not to stir WE - that is the quest

[Brad Simmons]

Guys, did I done screw up? and why? and would it taste different?

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Making two kits right now - Mosti Mondiale Pinot Grigio (we love that one) and a Wine Expert Angel Blanco (looks like it has great promise).

1st phase done, So I resuspended the sediment and Racked the MM Pinot Grigio to secondary last night - then I started stirring the WE Angel Blanco - and oops - not supposed to do that. So we wait till tonight to rack the Angel's Juice to secondary till tomorrow night.

I wonder why the difference and would it taste different?

Who knows the difference or potential difference if I resuspend the WE kits before racking to secondary?

Thanks in advance - I LOVE this forum! Brad

 

[ibglowin]

I can't see any difference this would cause, the only thing is perhaps the WE kit doesn't want to be stirred as they don't want you to rack over the gross lees at the first transfer but leave them behind.

I always transfer everything from primary to secondary, fill up the carboy and if there is extra that goes into a proper sized bottle with an airlock until secondary fermentation is complete. Then the gross lees are racked off both containers (if there are indeed two) and then combined back into the carboy. The wine is stabilized, degassed, fined, and finally topped off.

I think the instructions are all a slightly different from kit manufacturer to manufacturer but they will both ultimately get you to the same endpoint.

Its probably best to try and follow each ones instructions to the letter until you have enough experience under your belt to try something a little different but I don't see any problems here for you down the road.

 

[robie]

You always should be stirring the wine all through the primary phase anyway. Of the W.E. kits I have made, the instructions want you to stir up the sediment before you rack to secondary, so you will be sure to take most of the yeast with you.

These are whites and won't have much gross lees, anyway.

 

[v1rotate]

You always should be stirring the wine all through the primary phase anyway. Of the W.E. kits I have made, the instructions want you to stir up the sediment before you rack to secondary, so you will be sure to take most of the yeast with you.

I don't see this in the WE instructions for their Original Series kits. Maybe for the Estates? I didn't read them all, but here is what they call for in step 2, day 5-7:

2. Carefully siphon wine into a clean, sanitised 23 litre (6 US gallon) carboy. Leave the thickest sediment behind, but make sure you transfer most of the liquid.

I didn't see any mention of stirring during the initial fermentation either. I know GP kits call for stirring during the first week or so. As mentioned, it is probably best to follow each kit's instructions closely. The WE instructions go on to say that the sediment needs to be stirred up for the fining step. Maybe that is what you were thinking of?

 

[robie]

I believe you are right, I got my steps mixed up. Haven't made a WE kit in a while. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

I believe he should go strictly by the instructions at this point in time.

 

[vcasey]

It will not change the taste if you stir the wine or not. Some kits call for it and some don't and if it makes you feel better - stir! Just like some kits will also have you toss the dry yeast on top of the juice and others have you rehydrate the yeast first. For a white wine with just the juice fermenting I'll just mix it up and let it go.

 

[robie]

Yep, vcasey, I know it will ferment fine covered. Lots of home winemakers do it this way very successfully for sure.

I think Brad should go by the instructions and I didn't want to argue, one way or the other, especially since I wasn't going per the instructions.

I think WE is more nervous about foreign material getting into the wine, so they want the top on. Believe it or not, the instructions actually say, "step 8. Cover the primary fermenter and place in a location with a temperature of 22°-24°C (72°-75°F). If your primary fermenter uses an airlock, insert it now. "

To me, that is just a safety net for them and I do understand why. But I, personally, would never seal and air lock during primary fermentation.

Air lock aside, I know lots of home wine makers leave the fermenter tightly covered all during primary, and I am sure 1000's of kits have been made that way successfully and 100,000's more will in the future. I know you do it that way, although I don't know about the air lock, and all indications are you have made some "good stuff".

I always stir during primary, grape/raisin pack or not, even whites. The reason is that from all I have read outside of kit instructions, during primary, yeast need oxygen to function well. It is pretty hard to get oxygen if the lid is tightly sealed (with an air lock is installed for sure) and not periodically opening and stirring. I do believe a towel spread over the top of the fermenter will let in a good amount of oxygen.

The bentonite in the primary helps move the yeast around, so stirring a kit is not as important, since most kits have you add bentonite during primary.

Still, I like to stir the yeast up from the bottom every day. If any other thing during fermentation happens to become marginal, it might make the difference between a completed fermentation and a stuck one. It's just my opinion and the way I choose to do it, though. I won't criticize anyone who doesn't agree and would just as soon not argue with them; it's a matter of personal preference.

I also believe the primary should be stirred up well about an hour before racking to secondary. Thinking about it now, I honestly thought the WE instructions said to do it, but I was wrong. This gives time for the gross lees to settle back to the bottom, but have plenty of yeast still in suspension for racking to secondary. I do this because I want to make sure I have enough yeast population in secondary to finish the job. Again, if a person never does this, they may never have a problem in a whole lifetime of wine making.

We all do things a little differently, but I do feel bad that I was unintentionally steering Brad away from the instructions. A new wine makers doesn't need that!

 

[Brad Simmons]

Guys, this is ALL great insight and help.

I held off 24 hrs - and glad I did. I racked to secondary and left all the big stuff. I did get a little at the end, but not much.

And I DID suck all the Elderflowers up and into secondary. Wow, I am loving the way it smells. i am thinking St Germain.....

I waited, glad I did - not to worry if I didn't - and yes, foolow the instructions to a T.

Interestingly - the WE says to degass like crazy - whole paragraph on it. MM I hardly ever do much degassing with and its fine - they also don't make a big deal out of it. But the WE makes a big deal of degassing. Interesting.

 

[joeswine]

GETTING IT RIGHT

GUYS,I think your both on good tracks there's no right way but there is a wrong and its up to each to do whats works for each situation, in my opinion all kits aren't' created equal,but the end result and the way you get their is primarily the same ,for me when its time to move the wine I go by the numbers,primary to secondary and the least amount of sediment I carry over the better I can handle the final outcome,...but that's just me...