to each their own,,,,

[reeflections]

@reeflections, your idea has a lot of merit, although I did it the opposite. I found a recipe for rhubarb wine in the local newspaper and started with the art, then later moved to hard science, and gravitated towards the middle ground. I orbit that center, and my opinions vary a bit as I learn new things. Years ago I imagine people started on the art side, but with the internet and availability of information, I suspect many are starting on the science side.

As @MustyMike said above, large vendors have the resources to blend and tweak to make consistent batches from year to year. If you're a plonk vendor (I'm not British, but that word sounds right) making non-vintage wine, you have a vested interest in consistency. If you're Chateau Petrus, you have a vested interest in making the best wine you can from that year's harvest.

I'm on the Petrus side, philosophically speaking. I'm strive to make the best wine I can from what I have. Sure, I'd like next year's wine to be like a favored batch from the past, but I don't honestly worry about it. All I can do is my best. Mother Nature handles the rest.

IMO the science side is risk management. I control the factors that I consider important so the yeast can do its thing.

I think even with a recipe there is some very basic science that is necessary to understand. What yeast does and needs to do its work, range of temperatures, maybe S.G. readings, sanitizing. etc..

Basically, I think I am growing into the same philosophy as you as I learn.

I am using recipes but I have already tweaked them some. I have never used a kit and doubt I ever will. They seem pretty expensive. Plus, my 1st stab at fermentation was about 20 years ago when I made a couple of kit beers. They turned out good but I never felt like I really made them, more like I just put them together like an Ikea desk. But as Dawg says, all ways are right.

 

[hounddawg]

Since nobody else mentioned this, please be aware that in the US, it is illegal to send alcohol via the mail system. It might or might not be illegal to send marinade. UPS and/or FedEx are somewhat better choices, but Your Mileage May Vary. Just be careful out there.

so is it legal with fedex or ups?
Dawg

 

[reeflections]

so is it legal with fedex or ups?
Dawg

It doesn't look very promising according to this site:


https://www.freightrun.com/blog/post/how-to-ship-alcohol-to-a-friend

 

[sour_grapes]

so is it legal with fedex or ups?
Dawg

Here is my understanding. The USPS is a federal institution (and the power to create it is explicitly given in the US Constitution). As I understand it, it is against federal law to use USPS to ship alcohol. UPS and FedEx, being private enterprises, are not subject to those laws.

However, as @reeflections's post conveys, shipping (by any means) is still subject to state laws. Some states are okay with it, others not.

 

[reeflections]

Here is my understanding. The USPS is a federal institution (and the power to create it is explicitly given in the US Constitution). As I understand it, it is against federal law to use USPS to ship alcohol. UPS and FedEx, being private enterprises, are not subject to those laws.

However, as @reeflections's post conveys, shipping (by any means) is still subject to state laws. Some states are okay with it, others not.

Arkansas is on the no-ship list. Plus:

"...you will need to create a special contract with UPS or FedEx. Next, you will have to figure out exactly where you can ship wine. When you know which places you can ship it to, then you can use UPS Freight or FedEx Freight to ship it to its destination.

 

[cmason1957]

so is it legal with fedex or ups?
Dawg

Shipping wine is almost always prohibited, if you don't have the licenses. And for UPS anyway, the receivers need to sign for it. However, add indicated, you may be able to ship marinade to just about anyone. It really helps if you bring in already packed boxes or so I understand.

 

[hounddawg]

It doesn't look very promising according to this site:


https://www.freightrun.com/blog/post/how-to-ship-alcohol-to-a-friend

thank you
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

Here is my understanding. The USPS is a federal institution (and the power to create it is explicitly given in the US Constitution). As I understand it, it is against federal law to use USPS to ship alcohol. UPS and FedEx, being private enterprises, are not subject to those laws.

However, as @reeflections's post conveys, shipping (by any means) is still subject to state laws. Some states are okay with it, others not.

thank you
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

Shipping wine is almost always prohibited, if you don't have the licenses. And for UPS anyway, the receivers need to sign for it. However, add indicated, you may be able to ship marinade to just about anyone. It really helps if you bring in already packed boxes or so I understand.

ignorance is bliss, over the last several years well yawl know
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

so marinade it is, after all i've seen many a chicken smoked in bud.
Dawg

 

[sour_grapes]

I go with the "marinade" route, as well.

 

[winemaker81]

I think even with a recipe there is some very basic science that is necessary to understand. What yeast does and needs to do its work, range of temperatures, maybe S.G. readings, sanitizing. etc.

Thanks, but you're giving me FAR too much credit.

I used an expended beer ball ("beer sphere") as a fermenter, used a scale to weight the rhubarb, added the amount of sugar indicated in the recipe, and dumped in a package of bread yeast. It went a couple of weeks, smelled like alcohol, and there was no activity. IIRC, the recipe said to wait a certain duration, which I did.

Next I poured the "wine" off the sediment, and bottled in quart screw cap whiskey bottles.

I had no siphon tube and had no idea what a hydrometer was. There was no science, and calling it "art" requires a huge suspension of disbelief!

Prior to my second batch of rhubarb 2 years later, I purchased H E Bravery's Successful Wine Making at Home. I have an unfair habit of calling it the worst book on home wine making, because of his attitude on fruit wines, e.g., use as little fruit as possible to avoid fruit flavor. However, the book covers the basics and taught me a lot. IIRC, prior to that batch I found a wine & beer making supply shop (which I later became co-owner), and used wine yeast for the first time. Chris, the owner of The Winery in Rome NY, taught me a LOT.

Today's beginners have things soooo much better. The net provides an amazing mass of information, a large part of which is actually useful. Wine making in 1981 required following a recipe of questionable accuracy OR finding someone who knew how to do it. Book stores didn't carry wine making books, so the I purchased Bravery's book at The Winery.

 

[winemaker81]

I am using recipes but I have already tweaked them some. I have never used a kit and doubt I ever will. They seem pretty expensive.

In my area, kits can be cheaper then fresh grapes. A low end kit, which results in decent wine, cost between $60 and $100 USD, and including corks, run $2.75 to $4.25 per bottle. The high end kits range up to $8.00/bottle.

In contrast, the combined Malbec, Merlot, and Zinfandel I purchased last fall is roughly $6.25 bottle (quick estimate). My cost would have been higher, but I joined a group that made a bulk purchase of ~12,000 lbs of grapes, so we got a better price.

OTOH, shipping on individual kits is pricey as they are heavy, so I purchase only from my local shop. Shipping and availability of the fruit can have a huge impact on cost.

Have we veered far enough off the original topic?

 

[reeflections]

Have we veered far enough off the original topic?

I guess "to each his own" is a pretty wide topic.

In my area, kits can be cheaper then fresh grapes. A low end kit, which results in decent wine, cost between $60 and $100 USD, and including corks, run $2.75 to $4.25 per bottle. The high end kits range up to $8.00/bottle.

In contrast, the combined Malbec, Merlot, and Zinfandel I purchased last fall is roughly $6.25 bottle (quick estimate). My cost would have been higher, but I joined a group that made a bulk purchase of ~12,000 lbs of grapes, so we got a better price.

OTOH, shipping on individual kits is pricey as they are heavy, so I purchase only from my local shop. Shipping and availability of the fruit can have a huge impact on cost.

I have never attempted grape wine and didn't realize how expensive grapes were. I have only used frozen fruit or fresh bananas. Oh and a batch of Skeeter pee and a gallon of ginger wine. All cheaper than the kits I've seen. Especially since I have no local place to buy them.

 

[M38A1]

Hey Dawg.... I've pretty much given up on kit wines, can't make a decent grape wine and have gravitated to fruity sweet wines lately. But my strawberry attempts still suck bad. Started out reading the "how to make wine" stuff, learned a TON here from everyone and have somewhat come to an understanding that if I follow some basic recipes and use some basic target points, I can make a fun drinkable product.

I LOVE what everyone has offered up to help me and the broad range of responses has helped me grow personally in wine making. I've just sort of settled into the simple stuff at the moment because I can do it with success, it tastes good, and it's where I'm comfortable.

It's not right, and it's not wrong what I'm doing and how I do it. It's the virtual friendships here and the knowledge of everyone who has jumped in to help and answer any silly question I pose. I think we all grow in different ways on this journey.

 

[hounddawg]

Hey Dawg.... I've pretty much given up on kit wines, can't make a decent grape wine and have gravitated to fruity sweet wines lately. But my strawberry attempts still suck bad. Started out reading the "how to make wine" stuff, learned a TON here from everyone and have somewhat come to an understanding that if I follow some basic recipes and use some basic target points, I can make a fun drinkable product.

I LOVE what everyone has offered up to help me and the broad range of responses has helped me grow personally in wine making. I've just sort of settled into the simple stuff at the moment because I can do it with success, it tastes good, and it's where I'm comfortable.

It's not right, and it's not wrong what I'm doing and how I do it. It's the virtual friendships here and the knowledge of everyone who has jumped in to help and answer any silly question I pose. I think we all grow in different ways on this journey.

i've never used grapes nor kits, but country wines is what i love, what fruits and berries that i don't grow then i buy from homewinery.com, they say that a half gallon of concentrate is good for 5 gallons but it is not, if you do a six gallon then you can call and get the half gallon concentrate plus over the phone you can get pints, but what i do is when i make somthing i but 3 half gallon concentrates, put 12 gallons of water in my ferment barrel then add the 3 concentrates to it, that gives you 13 & 1/2 gallons, when ferment is over i rack into two 6 gallon carboys, and the extra i rack into gallon, half gallon even wine bottles and air lock, now this around extra gallon and a half, i use to top off with by time to bottle you'll be down to 2# 6 gal carboys, and no watering down, full flavor fruits and berries, they sell 53 different concentrates some different type grapes and some fruits and berries, i've tried venters and golden harvest wine bases but they in my opinion cant hold a light to homewinery.com concentrates, but remember if only making a 6 gallon batch the call get you half gallon concentrate and a couple pints, or if you want to make 2## 6's then buy 3 half gallon concentrates, or if you have a 3 gal carboy then buy one concentrate add 4 gallons of water to your ferment barrel, that way you can rack into the 3 gallon carboy and a couple smaller jugs to top off with, i got gallon, half gallon and pint jugs with 38-400 threads that way a drilled 6 & 1/2 bungs will fit all three and airlock, each time i rack then top off i move my extra must to smaller jugs, to airlock a wine bottle use a number 3 bunk or a small universal bung that fits your carboys turned upside down will fit a wine bottle, i hope this helps you,,,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

Hey Dawg.... I've pretty much given up on kit wines, can't make a decent grape wine and have gravitated to fruity sweet wines lately. But my strawberry attempts still suck bad. Started out reading the "how to make wine" stuff, learned a TON here from everyone and have somewhat come to an understanding that if I follow some basic recipes and use some basic target points, I can make a fun drinkable product.

I LOVE what everyone has offered up to help me and the broad range of responses has helped me grow personally in wine making. I've just sort of settled into the simple stuff at the moment because I can do it with success, it tastes good, and it's where I'm comfortable.

It's not right, and it's not wrong what I'm doing and how I do it. It's the virtual friendships here and the knowledge of everyone who has jumped in to help and answer any silly question I pose. I think we all grow in different ways on this journey.

on your straw berry after it is done what do you back sweeten to? and what is your ABV?
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

I guess "to each his own" is a pretty wide topic.



I have never attempted grape wine and didn't realize how expensive grapes were. I have only used frozen fruit or fresh bananas. Oh and a batch of Skeeter pee and a gallon of ginger wine. All cheaper than the kits I've seen. Especially since I have no local place to buy them.

NO TO EACH THEIR OWN means just that, reeflections is right it is a very broad topic,,,
Dawg

 

[winemanden]

^^^ YES. THIS !

This says it all. Learn the basics. Understand what you’re doing. And then mold your process and your wine however ya want. As long as you are aware of what you’re doing then any reason for any decision is justified. There is no wrong way!
To each their own.

We may come from extremely different backgrounds, and make completely different wines with completely different processes, but one thing is certain—— a pissed off woman is scares us just the same!

You're right Dawg and Ajmassa, learn the basics, but most of all, learn from your own mistakes!. Better still, join a Forum like this learn from other peoples mistakes, and make sure you don't do the same!
I've been a Country winemaker since 1957, made some good wines, a few brilliant wines, a few rough ones. That's life. I don't make as much as I used to, but I still enjoy making it, and even more I enjoy drinking it.
Regards to all, Stay safe.