traditional vs country,

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hounddawg

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ok i respect those that make all the grape types, and i respect yawls choices, and i do know grapes like yawl do are beyond my ability, and i respect that, i really am humbled buy your knowledge, but i am not into them types of wine, but i am in awl of yawl, you have knowledge i will never have, but forgive me,, when some condensed my country wines, i respect you enjoyments and even in aw of yawls knowledge, that being said, i do get short and feisty when I'm looked down on, and being condescended to, only a few do this, but this very forum taught me that i have only to please myself, and that is exactly what i do, i enjoy my country wine as much as yawl enjoy you fancy grape wines,
Dawg
 

BernardSmith

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Dawg, I strongly agree with Arne. Making wine from grapes can feel anxiety provoking but in the end , a grape is just another fruit BUT wine grapes have been grown to contain the amount of sugar that a good wine needs (without any added sugars that country wines need); the amount of juice that a wine needs (without any need to add water); more or less the amount of tannin and acidity we like in a wine. If you can make a delightful wine from berries then you can make a delightful wine from wine grapes. And if you don't want the bother of crushing the fruit to enable the yeast to get at the flesh and if you don't want the bother of pressing the fruit after the yeast have fermented the sugars to extract as much of the juice as possible , then there are kits and if you like grape wine even if you laugh at the thought of having an "educated" (and my palate is as ignorant as they come) then you can make a batch and see what folk are talking about. More: if you dismiss the idea of spending money on a kit containing a concentrate made from grape juice, you can make wine from buckets of frozen juice.
None of which is to argue that country wines are second tier. I very, very rarely even think about making wine from grapes because I love country wines. I love elderflower wine and hard cider and honey wines and I love SP. But I am not afraid to make a grape wine.
 

sour_grapes

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I will take the opposite-but-complementary position. I have utmost respect for people who make wine from other-than-grapes. I think grapes are the easiest thing to make wine from. The road is wide and well-trod.

I don't have the patience or the skilz to make a delicious drink out of some of the things I see described here. Someone who can take, say, dandelions or various berries or crabapples and make something that I would WANT to drink out of it, well, I will doff my cap to them.
 

balatonwine

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i enjoy my country wine as much as yawl enjoy you fancy grape wines,
I live in the EU. By EU law, you can not call it "wine" unless it comes from grapes (Blame the French.....)

But I have made some great "fermented alcoholic beverages that must remain unnamed" from Cherry, Mulberry and Elderberry.

And, yes I thought some were better than my grapes wines. Just sayin'.....

Ergo: The quality of the final product, need not be the source... But the talent of the craftsman.
 

Ajmassa

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ok i respect those that make all the grape types, and i respect yawls choices, and i do know grapes like yawl do are beyond my ability, and i respect that, i really am humbled buy your knowledge,
nope. not true at all dawg. doesn’t have to be like that.

no chemistry. no lab testing. no nutrients. no yeast. you don’t need any of that stuff. Can be as simple as:
crush grapes
let ferment
press grapes in a week or so
rack and age
rack & bottle
enjoy

badabing badaboom fughetaboutit
up my way we call this OLD SCHOOL. you just don’t hear much about it because these guys ain’t posting on internet forums.
 

balatonwine

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nope. not true at all dawg. doesn’t have to be like that.

no chemistry. no lab testing. no nutrients. no yeast. you don’t need any of that stuff. Can be as simple as:
Simple.... Um... Well.... Maybe. But probably not.

Because it is far more complicated in most cases.

A complete topic in of itself. :)
 

KCCam

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I have a hard time believing anyone here would put you or your wine down, Dawg. But the great thing about a forum, is you can simply ignore them. Don't take offense, don't give offense.

i enjoy my country wine as much as yawl enjoy you fancy grape wines,
Exactly the point. There's no need to make fancy grape wines, when you are a fancy fruit wine connoisseur! Don't let it bother you if there are those that can't understand the subtleties of your craft. Who cares if someone doesn't think that your taste is as refined as theirs, or if you like strawberry, and they like chocolate? Life is too short to get worked up over what someone else thinks about you or your love. Just make the best damn wine you can, keep learning, and keep sharing.

And I'll bet you could have a lot of fun with grapes. Treat them like any other fruit, experiment, and have fun, man! Cheers.
 

Ajmassa

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Simple.... Um... Well.... Maybe. But probably not.

Because it is far more complicated in most cases.

A complete topic in of itself. :)
but it doesn’t have to be. just basing that off how my family used to make wine. nothing fancy. bare bones no frills type. no so2. natural ferment. no testing. not suggesting to do it. just saying—- it can, (and has) been done this way by many families for many generations.
 

balatonwine

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but it doesn’t have to be. just basing that off how my family used to make wine. nothing fancy. bare bones no frills type. no so2. natural ferment. no testing. not suggesting to do it. just saying—- it can, (and has) been done this way by many families for many generations.
Which, why I said "Maybe". And why I said "it is far more complicated".

What is "wine" is complicated. What is "good" wine is a preference. How do we know what "many families" created was, to be frank... Any good? Maybe they drank it because, well.... it was "there" and something to drink.

Ergo, it it complicated. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I can admit. A great cider is a wonderful drink. But is it a "wine"? Ay, there's the rub (Hamlet, Act III, Scene I). I would say "yes". But others may disagree. Ergo.... The issue and the problem. Which is really a non-problem in the global scheme of things.

Regarding traditional wine. Some great. Some of it crap. I live in a nearly 2,000 year old wine region. Yes, some traditional wine is great. but some is crap.

Why? Because. Again... It is complicated. I advise to not error in making singular declarations.
 
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Ajmassa

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Which, why I said "Maybe". And why I said "it is far more complicated".

What is "wine" is complicated. What is "good" wine is a preference. How do we know what "many families" created was, to be frank... Any good? Maybe they drank it because, well.... it was "there" and something to drink.

Ergo, it it complicated. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I can admit. A great cider is a wonderful drink. But is it a "wine"? Ay, there's the rub (Hamlet, Act III, Scene I). I would say "yes". But others may disagree. Ergo.... The issue and the problem. Which is really a non-problem in the global scheme of things.

Regarding traditional wine. Some great. Some of it crap. I live in a nearly 2,000 year old wine region. Yes, some traditional wine is great. but some is crap.

Why? Because. Again... It is complicated. I advise to not error in making singular declarations.
well said. i’d even go as far to say old school winemaking and commercial wines are almost 2 completely separate categories. hard to compare the two. I grew up with a preference for homemade junk wine before i knew what “good” wine actually was. But i still appreciate it and have even attempted to recreate it before.
and I did very much enjoy the so2 free/cultured yeast free/nutrient free—- stress free ferment aspect.
 

balatonwine

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I did very much enjoy the so2 free/cultured yeast free/nutrient free—- stress free ferment aspect.
I have been working on that that for years. Starting in the vineyard (the Vigneron of my world view -- more of the vines less of the cellar).

My Holy Grail.

Mixed results. Because.... it is complicated. :cool:
 

hounddawg

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I live in the EU. By EU law, you can not call it "wine" unless it comes from grapes (Blame the French.....)

But I have made some great "fermented alcoholic beverages that must remain unnamed" from Cherry, Mulberry and Elderberry.

And, yes I thought some were better than my grapes wines. Just sayin'.....

Ergo: The quality of the final product, need not be the source... But the talent of the craftsman.
that just blew my mind,,, whew, illegal, hehe,, and yes the 3 beverages you just named i absolutely love,
Dawg
 

hounddawg

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nope. not true at all dawg. doesn’t have to be like that.

no chemistry. no lab testing. no nutrients. no yeast. you don’t need any of that stuff. Can be as simple as:
crush grapes
let ferment
press grapes in a week or so
rack and age
rack & bottle
enjoy

badabing badaboom fughetaboutit
up my way we call this OLD SCHOOL. you just don’t hear much about it because these guys ain’t posting on internet forums.
yes i know them ways, i met many a person when i spent 9 months at smith point back in the 80's,
MAN to this very day i miss pie made by a potbellied 300 plus,,, hairy elder man,,,,,,
Dawg
 
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hounddawg

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I have a hard time believing anyone here would put you or your wine down, Dawg. But the great thing about a forum, is you can simply ignore them. Don't take offense, don't give offense.


Exactly the point. There's no need to make fancy grape wines, when you are a fancy fruit wine connoisseur! Don't let it bother you if there are those that can't understand the subtleties of your craft. Who cares if someone doesn't think that your taste is as refined as theirs, or if you like strawberry, and they like chocolate? Life is too short to get worked up over what someone else thinks about you or your love. Just make the best damn wine you can, keep learning, and keep sharing.

And I'll bet you could have a lot of fun with grapes. Treat them like any other fruit, experiment, and have fun, man! Cheers.
no, no, no, i don't take offence i feel it is remarkable that they can train their palates the way they do, yes i am not into that, but as i said i am impressed by that fact,
Dawg
 

hounddawg

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nope. not true at all dawg. doesn’t have to be like that.

no chemistry. no lab testing. no nutrients. no yeast. you don’t need any of that stuff. Can be as simple as:
crush grapes
let ferment
press grapes in a week or so
rack and age
rack & bottle
enjoy

badabing badaboom fughetaboutit
up my way we call this OLD SCHOOL. you just don’t hear much about it because these guys ain’t posting on internet forums.
i know your old school, heck, they were doing that 3,000 years ago,,,,
Dawg
 

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