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Starting native cuttings

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Bobp

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I've long had a notion than some of the native grapes have value in jams, jellies, and small batch wines.
An acquaintance of mine provided me with a pickup bed of vine he pulled down with a tractor. These vine grow on his family's farm. They produce a red/black grape about the size of your thumbnail, and have a great flavor. The area mother vines are huge and the wildlife typically clean them out as most production is in the tree tops.

I made cuttings of last years new growth, about 100?? healed them into a compost pile edge, 24" deep. i pulled them out in early march, they were well rooted. i tilled a spot in the edge of my garden, and planted them. There has been no bud push, no growth?
it seems odd to me. I once planted possom grapes (small black high acid) i dozed down by making cuttings and just sticking them in tilled dirt.... they grew out fine but the deer kept them beat back.

I want to have a small vineyard section o grow some native grapes for playing with in the winery... they make great jams, and have interesting flavors.....but i've got to figure out how to get the to grow?

Any ideas in what i did wrong?
 

garymc

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No leaves at all? If they had a few leaves and were just sitting there, I'd say they are growing roots and won't take off until the root system gets developed. But if they're just sticks and not a single leaf, they're either real late or dead. If you're in a cold area, they may be waiting for warm weather.
 

Bobp

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Were in nw Arkansas. No leaves at all. They had roots. And we're watered in.
 

Bobp

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I pulled a couple up and the roots were dead.
Do grapes suffer from funguses like damping off? It's just odd to me. The nursery bed I used is just a row in the garden. It's good soil, with lits if compost added over the last few years
 

Masbustelo

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There is a long thread on here, maybe stickied by Grapeman on how to cuttings, the problems associated and how to do it successfully,
 

balatonwine

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If you started them in a compost pile and moved them to a less rich environment, I would expect them to die. It is like taking someone from the penthouse and putting them in the ghetto. The roots (and their micro-rhizomes) developed in a rich environment, and thus are expecting a high quality environment forever. When you move them to something probably, much, much less than that, they just could not handle the more stark environment.

Best to start cuttings in a rather stark environment to begin with. I personally use a 50:50 mix of vineyard soil (i.e. where they will be planted) and small gravel to get cuttings started. And keep them them moist. Others only use something like vermiculite.

Plenty of sites, sources and info on-line about how to start plants from cuttings.
 

Bobp

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I bought 500 grapes from a nursery. They were feild grown, bare root, but were started as cuttings. I may have lost 5-6 total of them.

I heeled in in the compost pile. Then took the rooted ones to my garden for a nursery row.

I don't know if it's bad soil or not??? Doesnt test out needing anything.
And it sure grows the Dickens out of everything else. I've been adding compost to it yearly. And I ran pigs on it two winter's.
 

garymc

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I've looked over this thread a couple of times. Can you say anything more specific than "native grapes?" I see you're in Arkansas, so they could be muscadines. Muscadines are much more difficult to start from cuttings than other grapes.
 

CK55

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Grapes are pretty vigorous and durable. I only lost my Barbera. Everything else has taken off like a bat out of hell. I live in california though, and My soil is Ancient Sand Dunes. So good news is i dont even have to think about a lot of grape pests.
 

Venatorscribe

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If you started them in a compost pile and moved them to a less rich environment, I would expect them to die. It is like taking someone from the penthouse and putting them in the ghetto. The roots (and their micro-rhizomes) developed in a rich environment, and thus are expecting a high quality environment forever. When you move them to something probably, much, much less than that, they just could not handle the more stark environment.

Best to start cuttings in a rather stark environment to begin with. I personally use a 50:50 mix of vineyard soil (i.e. where they will be planted) and small gravel to get cuttings started. And keep them them moist. Others only use something like vermiculite.

Plenty of sites, sources and info on-line about how to start plants from cuttings.
I do something similar. But use commercial cactus soil mix. It is designed as a free draining soil - containing a good mix of sand, pumice etc along with some organic soil mix and a small amount of nutrient. I very rarely get any rot on the cutting. Keep cuttings in a sheltered area and under shade. Basically - common sense stuff - don't expose them to the full elements of nature. Keep them watered but not saturated.
 

Bobp

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They're grapes not muscadines. Theyre just a wild dark grape about the size of your thumbnail or so. The biggest wild grape I've seen in the Ozarks. We have lots of little ones. All grow b to the tree tops. And all have the best quality from the tops...more sunlight.
I obviously did something wrong. I've started grapes from cuttings before...and they did fine...
It's not a huge loss I'll try again. It's just odd that none budded and leafed out at all?

It's just an interesting thing to me.....and would make some interesting blends.
 

treesaver

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When starting cuttings, I always start in a peat pot. When roots are pushing through the bottom or sides, I take them out and plant the whole thing, pot and all. I've done this with five different varieties and some wild grapes, and it works well for me. Bet once they have roots pushing through, I haven't lost prolly more than five vines out of way over a hundred, doing it that way.
 

balatonwine

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I don't know if it's bad soil or not??? Doesnt test out needing anything.
And it sure grows the Dickens out of everything else. I've been adding compost to it yearly. And I ran pigs on it two winter's.
For vinifera, at least, there is a old saying: you grow grapes where corn won't grow.

That is, vines don't need really rich soil. And if the soil is too rich, you grow mostly vine canes and leaves, not so much great fruit.

But that is beside my point. I was trying to say that regardless of the soil, it is probably still not as good as a compost pile and that downgrade change in environment is a shock to the roots and the plant. To help the plant the most, if you grow from cuttings, is to not do that sort of environmental shock.
 
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