Sparkolloid vs Super Klear

[Thig]

...and its real fluffy

That is the big problem with Sparkolloid, not that it is a little slower.

 

[dangerdave]

The lees are about even---depth-wise. But the Sparkolloid still has some falling out to do. I'm just curious as to whether or not the Super Kleer will change the taste. I've only ever made DB with Sparkolloid. The color looks good, so that doesn't seem to be an issue. I can also check the tone of the lees after the first racking and see if any color has been stripped.

We shall see. Tasting on Christmas Eve!

 

[suecasa]

update ...

remember my amazing bubbles from page 2 of this thread??

the bulk of the wine ended up being crystal clear in 1.5 days!!!! but the lees were about 4" tall!! and extremely fluffy ... like dont jiggle the bottle or everything gets cloudy again fluffy!! I've never seen that with SK

I've been racking a few times to smaller carboys - one for the top that's clear, then the cloudy to settle down again and rack again ... i think i just about have it ...but have lost a few bottles in the process, and without the crazy racking would have lost over a gallon

is there any way to get the lees to compact more if they aren't doing it on their own?

 

[dangerdave]

They usually compress themselves more over time. The answer is "time".

 

[jamesngalveston]

sue looks like you used a lot yeast nutrient...are something.
post a pic of what it looks like now.

 

[dangerdave]

Ok, what a week! My wine making was put on delay this week when my father-in-law had a stroke on the 19th. He was in the hospital and hour away, so lots of driving back and forth during the Christmas season. We got him into a rehab unit in his home town (just two miles from his house) on Christmas Eve, so he can get back into shape and back home for good. He is recovering well, his deficit is mild, and he's in good spirits.

So, the clearing continues. Actually, the Super Klear is done and the Sparkolloid has been trying to catch up. I have had batches of DB using Sparkolloid that cleared up in a few days, and others that have taken weeks. Not sure what the main factor is in that. I'm going to get back in the Lab this week and do some tasting---after I filter both batches. I'll check the color and condition of the lees as well. Most of us know how that will turn out. Flavor will still be the determinine factor for me. I've been making my version of DB for over two years now, and I don't want the taste to change. My wife wouldn't hear of it!

Thank you for your patience.

 

[jamesngalveston]

post a pic of the recent....would like to see.

 

[dangerdave]

Once again, I'm one move behind my posts. I'll get you a pic before I disturb it tomorrow. Just for you, James.

 

[jamesngalveston]

lol, thanks dave.

 

[Winenoob66]

lol I can't wait to see the results of the taste test as I am holding off starting my 1st batch to see what clearing agent I will be using.

 

[dangerdave]

Ok, I finally got around to the final check on these two batches of Dragon Blood. The Sparkolloid had not yet cleared completely after two weeks (right). The Super Klear batch was crystal clear (left).

I racked them off the lees for observation. Remarkably, the Sparkolloid lees had more color, while the Super Klear lees were fairly pale. They had both compacted nicely. You be the judge...

Sparkolloid---

Super Klear---

I filtered them both and added the proper amount of sugar to our liking, letting them sit overnight. After filtering, the wines were indistinguishable. The taste test came next.

My wife and I both sipped our samples with a look of confusion. She and I think very much alike---makes most things very easy for us. She voiced my thoughts. There was something...something very minor...something subtly different between these two batches in taste. Hardly noticeable, save perhaps to DB officionados like us.

The Sparkolloid batch was a little bit smoother, with a slightly fruitier taste. The Super Klear batch had more of a bight, and my wife said it made her tongue tingle. She liked both---because they were so very similar---and in the end, voiced no preference for future batches. I felt the same. I also surmise that after bootling and sitting for a few weeks, we probably won't be able to tell them apart.

The Super Klear gives the advantage of clearing very quickly, and producing slightly more compact lees. If you are not into filtering, Super Klear is a good choice. If I had not filtered, I would have had to wait several more weeks for the Sparkolloid batch to clear---and even then, not for certain.

I think the winner here goes to Super Klear. The only advantage the Sparkolloid seems to have is cost (and that's minimal), and the fear of any shell fish allergy attacks.

Thanks for tuning in! Follow up discussions to follow...

 

[jamesngalveston]

Thanks dave for the experiment, it confirms what i have thought myself since i started using superkleer,, remember its cheaper in bulk.

 

[dangerdave]

I'm definately leaning that direction, James. Next order I make, I'm getting some.

 

[Winenoob66]

Thanks for the testing Dave, and sorry about your Father-in-law I hope he is doing good.

 

[jamesngalveston]

here is another test for you.
i learned that when adding sorbate to a wine just racked also inhibits clearing .after i noticed this I started reading, and most white papers indicate not using sorbate untill the wine is clear...you can add kmeta/campden, but not sorbate.
sorbate as we know inhibits yeast cells, but it also changes those cells making them harder to drop out...they more are less float.
If you add your sorbate after your wine clears, it clears faster and the less yeast cells you have the better the sorbate works, and you dont have to use as much...
thanks dave.....all ready have my db planned for 2014....

happy new year..

 

[dangerdave]

Good info, James, thanks. It has also been a "hard rule" that sulfite and sorbate work best together. How do we match that with your info?

 

[jamesngalveston]

i would think the chance of any wine thats 12.5 percent are better getting any germ growth in a 4 are 5 weeks is pretty low, if any. exspecially if under air lock.
but, what i do is wait till i rack the third time and add campden, when it clears i add sorbate, if its needed, then wait to bottle.

 

[jamesngalveston]

http://nanaimowinemakers.org/Notes/Sorbate.htm

http://www.vawa.net/winemaking-articles/Stabilizing Sweet Wines.html

http://www.brewersdirect.com/wp-content/uploads/POTASSIUM-SORBATE-Wine-Stabilizer.pdf

 

[dangerdave]

So you've still got sulfite in there at the time you're adding the sorbate. I see. I think that would work just fine.

 

[jamesngalveston]

I only use sorbate in wine that I make for my sister, because she likes hers about 12 percent abv.....
For my own...i kick it up to 14 to 15 percent, which does not need sorbate.
My wine is clear, and at 15 percent, there is not yeast left, none, nada,
gone....and I can backsweeten...which will bring the abv down some...
once the yeast is dead, it cant just come back as a zombie rouque yeast.