WineXpert Source of Slight Disappointment

[Vaughn]

To date,I have completed 5 kits since March of this year. So far, everything has come out pretty good (with the exception of some CO2, my mistake). However, my wife andI have both noticed that our red wines have lacked what I would call a "hearty mouth-feel." The wines, even though they are full of flavor and aroma, lack a certain heavy consistency that I like in a red wine. Not an all-together bad thing, just a slight disappointment.


Could I be experiencing:


A) Young wine - The wine will take on a heavier feel with more aging.


B) Cheep kits - I have be using the 7 liter kits so far. Would the 15+ liter kits give me what I'm looking for?


C) None of the above. Stop complaining and drink your wine.

 

[Waldo]

I believe i would age it a couple of months and try it again. I think you will be pleased at waiting. The higher end kits I would think wouldmake a better wine. I am struggling on which one of the premium kits Georgeis offering I want to try. Would love to do them all but alas my home will only accomodate so much wine and mybank account cannot accomodate all of the kits

 

[masta]

I would say to try a higher end kit and I am sure you will see a noticeable difference in the overall quality of the wine.


Personally I think the higher end kits are indeed a better value since the wine they make is so much better. The old saying "you get what you pay for" certainly holds true for wine kits.


Aging the reds longer certainly will add to complexity and mouth-feel of a wine and thehigher endkits will need a good amount of aging.

 

[Hippie]

Also, the higher-end kits will require longer aging to reach their full potential. I do not advocate modifying kit directions, but you can add a pack of dried elderberries to a red kit or dried elderflowers to a white kit and get some extra body. Some of the kits already include these ingredients.

 

[peterCooper]

The answer is both. The higher end kits are going to give that 'mouth'
that you are looking for.

I can also tell you that age is important. With no other than the wine I
make (because I REFUSE to pay for commercial any more) I have had my
share of too young wine.

Bottling my first Chianti, it lacked the depth of experience I wanted at 3
weeks, and now at 2 months, is beginning to take on the characteristics I
want.

There is no subsititute however. As always, the more you pay , the more
you get.


Peter

 

[Cove Cottage]

We "kinda" share your feeling with our Zinfandel. We have put it in the wine cooler and have vowed not to open it until December. Sort of like a Christmas present to ourselves. Hopefully it will be more to our liking by then. That said .... our next kit will be a Crushendo, we're just deciding which one. mwm

 

[PolishWineP]

Another way to get more "mouth" in the wines is to use less water. We've been known to turn a 6 gallon kit into a 5 gallon kit. I need mouth in my wines and won't drink thin wines. I'm a snot that way, but then again I like wines so dry that when I blow air out of my mouth after a swallow of wine that dust comes with it!

 

[Hippie]

Some kits will 'stick' when that is done, and they will all be way off-balance and require at least an extra year in the bottle to be good. Alot of wines will turn out pretty awful doing that. I know from experience!

 

[PolishWineP]

I guess we've been quite lucky then.

We've gotten instructions from another wine maker on how to convert a 6 gallon into a 5 1/2 gallon kit. (Bert has corrected me here.)

 

[Hippie]

So then, do you think the money you spend on kits is worth not having as much wine and no warranty? Are you doing this with red kits? How long are they needing aged in the bottle? Please post the instructions. Curious and skeptical.

 

[Vaughn]

AH! Now who is the skeptic?!

Wine Princess,


This doesn't seem too far fetched (translation for those of you from the North, "This sounds like a reasonable thing to do.") If you look at the directions for making wine from the Alexander's Sun Country grape juice concentrates, theyprovide instructions for light, medium and heavy bodied wines. It's all a matter of using more or less water when reconstituting the concentrate. I would only think that one would check the acid and sugar content and make sure that the yeast they are using is robust enough tohandle it.


Where would I find a 5.5 gallon carboy?Is this where I use the marbles?





Edited by: HollowOakWine

 

[PolishWineP]

Hippie, I'll see if I can find those directions. I may have to wait for Bert to be in from the field on Sunday. I'm not worried about the guarantee. Life is full of risks, and compared to driving to work in the morning altering a wine kit is small stuff.


Hollow Oak, This is where you could use marbles (it would be a lot of them!) or where you could draw off a bottle or 2 to use as top up after you rack from carboy to carboy. I haven't seen any 5.5 carboys! I think we've used this method for several kits and haven't killed anything yet.

 

[Joseph1]

The kit manufacturer has created a product that is balanced when reconstituted to 6 gallons. They guarantee their product and deviating from the instructions may be at your own risk. If it is more body you seek, I suggest the Estate line of kits. With these, you can get the body and the balance. For the new kit maker, follow the instructions. You should understand the process and your goals before you begin to alter the instructions.
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With that being said, I can see that there may be some improvement to body by reconstituting to 5.5 gallons. Have you had a chance to make the same kit, one to 6 gallons the other to 5.5 gallons and compare the results?

Some thoughts:

The reduced volume will have a corresponding increase in the sugar content. The yeast provided with the kit should handle this without a problem. However, the hydrometer should be consulted to ensure you are still within the range for a table wine. The additional sugar will result in about a 1% to 1.5%increase in the alcohol content.

The reduced volume will also increase your acid concentration about 0.5 parts per thousand (0.005%). This increase will give your wine a slightly more tart taste. There will also be about a 10% increase in the tannin concentration, which increases the perception of dryness.

I am also curious about the procedure. When the wine is transferred from primary to secondary, is a 6-gallon carboy used? If it is, how is the headspace managed after stabilizing and fining? Do you immediately rack to a 5-gallon and some smaller bottles?

For anyone thinking about trying this, first make the kit to 6 gallons according to instructions. Then make the same kit to 5.5 gallons. Compare the two to see if there is a noticeable difference. Make sure it is the procedure and not a different kit that has accounted for the difference. I would definitely not try this with a kit containing an F-pack since these are balanced for 6 gallons. Personally, I believe the solution to lack of body is a kit with more juice and less concentrate.

For those that may be thinking if making the kit to 5.5 gallons improves it, would 5 gallons be better? At 5 gallons the alcohol increases by 3%, the acid concentration by 1 part per thousand (0.01%) and the tannins by 20%. A wine like this takes a long time to age and may never mellow into a drinkable wine.

It is your kit to do with as you wish. When you alter the instructions, there are no guarantees. I believe a tweak here and there, in pursuit of the perfect wine, is what winemaking is all about. However, it is essential that the winemaker know why he is tweaking the kit and the desired outcome.

 

[PolishWineP]

Haven't forgotten yet. Bert's been terrible busy and I hate digging in his paperwork. I suppose if I did paperwork it would be mine too...

Have to go rack!

 

[geocorn]

I can not over emphasize this point. The Winexpert wine kits are balanced for 6 gallons, not 5 or 5.5 or 4 or 7, but SIX gallons. Any home wine making store that tells you anything differently is either


A) Not knowledgable about the product, or


B) Lying to you!


It is that simple. As Joseph stated above, making your kit wine to less than 6 gallons will throw off the balance and may ruin your wine. I don't say this lightly as I have had an in depth converstation with TimVandergrift concerning this point and he is extremely adament in this point. I can get Winexpert to replace almost any kit, as long as you follow the directions. If you do not follow the directions, you are out of luck.


If you want more body, just add some more oak. Adding some medium toast to any wine, including the whites will improve the body without altering the taste. You can use either the powder during the primary or cubes at the end. If you have any questions about this, please feel free to give me a call.

 

[PolishWineP]

No worries George. I won't post them but I will send them privately to Hippie since he wanted to see them.

 

[peterCooper]

George,
That almost sounds like Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

"Thou shalt count to three, not two, not four but three."
"Three shalt be the number of thy count and the number of thy count shal
be three"

 

[geocorn]

Peter,


And your point is????????


Follow the instructions and life will be good. Don't follow the instructions and you could be in trouble.


The number shall be 3!

 

[peterCooper]

Exactly!