small production winery location?

[west_end]

I have been daydreaming about starting a small production winery maybe just making 400 bottles annually. I would like to sell the wine maybe to restaurants, friends and family.

I have been pondering where the best location would be to start something like this. It seems like there are three big decisions to consider.

1. The close proximity to good grapes.

2. State laws that would be favorable for a business like this.

3. The cost of living

For example, here in the state of GA you can't get local grapes or you do not want to. also the state laws governing distribution of alcohol have not changed since prohibition but you can find cheap land.

I am sure, Northern California would work but the cost of living is very high.

Any ideas?

Thanks Steve

 

[GreginND]

You would consider moving across the country, investing in a commercial winemaking operation, license, fees, insurance, etc to make 80 gallons of wine a year? I think you are dreaming.

You may be able to do something like this out of your basement if you have it sealed off from the rest of your house if your local zoning allows it. Otherwise I think it is not feasible.

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, it could be part of a retirement daydream, as in, "Hmmm, where should I retire?"

 

[west_end]

You would consider moving across the country, investing in a commercial winemaking operation, license, fees, insurance, etc to make 80 gallons of wine a year? I think you are dreaming.

GreginND, You did read where I said I have been daydreaming …right?

I am in a situation where I can live anywhere in the US I like. I don't like GA much and have been thinking about moving. I am not asking your opinion about the feasibility of my idea; besides the particulars can't be determine until you can look at the specific laws and regulations of a state and/or county. I am now just looking for potential places to start looking.

It would be fun to considerably expand my hobby.

 

[sour_grapes]

Eastern Washington would fulfill these criteria, I believe.

 

[JohnT]

Like GreginND said, you need to look at this in a practical way.

I REALLY hate bursting the dream. I think that at least half of the members here would like to do the same if it were within the realm of reality.

Dreams and art are always trumped by money...

By the time you shovel money at land, facilities, equipment, licensing, legal fees (believe me, perhaps the costliest budget item in some areas), and permits, you will find yourself is a pretty deep financial hole. A hole so deep that 400 bottles priced at $250 per bottle would not get you to the break even point.

There is a whole lot of expenses not even listed above (water, heat, electricity, fertilizer, and a method for dealing with vineyard pests such as birds or deer).

For a long time, I had that same dream. I even talked to my accountant about it. "That should be something to consider right after you win the lottery" was his response. He was right. There are really no poor winery owners. Today, most are either independently wealthy or out of business.

Still, I purchase my lottery ticket every week. You never know.

 

[sour_grapes]

I understand that you did not ask about feasibility, and I have no particular interest in dissuading you from this endeavor. In fact, I'd like to encourage you!

The Oregon Wine Research Institute produces white papers to analyze the economics of establishing a vineyard. Take a look at some of these resources: http://owri.oregonstate.edu/articles/508

 

[Elmer]

I understand that you did not ask about feasibility, and I have no particular interest in dissuading you from this endeavor. In fact, I'd like to encourage you!

The Oregon Wine Research Institute produces white papers to analyze the economics of establishing a vineyard. Take a look at some of these resources: http://owri.oregonstate.edu/articles/508

Thanks for the depressing read.
Guess I will not be giving up my civil servant job anytime soon to open up a vineyard in my back yard!

after reading that I dont know if I can even afford to drink wine any longer!

 

[Dino466]

West_End,
There is a small winery for sale about 2 hours from me in the lovely Nova Scotia. 400 bottle - sale price is under $750,000.00 been running for 15 years. Won a lot of awards.

http://www.vinesmart.com/real_estat...tia-canada-winery-vineyard-home-for-sale.html

 

[GreginND]

Well, Steve did not say anything about growing grapes himself, so if he purchased grapes he wouldn't have all the expenses of land/vineyard etc.

For small production to do as a "hobby" commercial venture you really want to be in a place with the least regulations and less competition from big players. Eastern WA has great fruit, but there are hundreds of small wineries to compete with and real estate is high now due to the demand.

You should look at emerging markets where the wine industry is still small but growing.

By the way, don't limit yourself to the US. I think you can still find some good deals in South America - Argentina, Chile or maybe some of the lesser known wine producing countries.

 

[Runningwolf]

Good lord 80 gallons, I can lose that much just racking and filtering a wine in a day.

Find a state where you can make it out of your house and sell it. Forget about selling it to restaurants and family if you really want to make money. If you're just doing it for fun and want to make enough money to cover your hobby that's another thing. I make more than double that amount in my basement, so it can be done. Maye something on this small of a scale would work well with a B&B.

 

[west_end]

Well, Steve did not say anything about growing grapes himself, so if he purchased grapes he wouldn't have all the expenses of land/vineyard etc. .

you are correct GreginND


It looks like the major expenses are growing, caring for, and harvesting grapes. Unless I win the lottery I have no interest in doing that. There are small boutique wineries that do not grow their own grapes. This must be a viable economic model at some level.

Knowing the local regulations you might be able to build an in ground cellar in Eastern Washington (for example). Having a cold clement like this would help lower the cost of cooling the cellar. Even my partial in ground basement in Ga stays around 60º even when it got down to 14º this winter.

You could probably do the whole thing in a smallish out building with the right cellar. It would all depend on the local regulations.

I have a friend in south Ga that makes and sells his own hot sauce. He makes it in an building right near his house. When building it, he followed the local regulations and zoning everything is on the up and up. Since he has the equipment he also mixes, bottles and labels other peoples recipes. I think he does rather well. If you find the right location and use a little creativity I think you could make this work.

There is a boutique winery in California that only cells their wine to their "club members". What kind of racket is that. You pay to get into the club and that gets you the opportunity to buy their wine. It might be a way to get around local regulations.

There is a wine supply store in Atlanta that does well by giving classes on how to make a kit wine. Yes, apparently they teach their students how to read the instructions. The classes teach them from fermentation to bottling. Last time I was in there they had so many student carboys sitting around it was unbelievable.

There are lots of ways to generate revenue streams.

 

[Runningwolf]

There is a boutique winery in California that only cells their wine to their "club members". What kind of racket is that. You pay to get into the club and that gets you the opportunity to buy their wine. It might be a way to get around local regulations.

Steve, A wine club is very difficult to get started and probably nearly impossible if your wine is not well known and top notch. The way most of them work the customer pays you ?? amount of money a number times of the year. You then send them wine of your choice to them each time. They usually don't know what they are getting. It is up to you to make it well worth there time and it's a chance to introduce them to some new wine. You might even have some special events for them throughout the year. I'm sure there is many ways of doing it.

I belong to a beer club. Every two months I get 12 beers sent to me (4 varieties) from around the country. I get information brochures about each kind. The first box (I just started it) also included 4 tasting glasses and 4 snack size packages of nuts.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Dont dismiss Georgia. One of the best Cabs I ever had came from Dahlonega, a beautiful winery made like a castle with a fantastic tasting roon.

 

[Droc]

When I lived in San Diego we drank a good bit if wine from boutique wineries in temecula. Cost of living is low there compared to some of the other places in California. I'm not sure about the operations end of it, but they distributed their wines to wine bars and places like that where you can go and get tastings and buy a bottle if you want. You might look into something like that if you decide to do this.


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[Boatboy24]

There are a lot of wineries I've been to here in VA that only grow a small portion of the grapes they use to make their wines. So, yes. You can have a winery without a vineyard to support it. VA is pretty wine friendly, but land can be expensive - particularly here in northern VA, close to DC.

 

[west_end]

Dont dismiss Georgia. One of the best Cabs I ever had came from Dahlonega, a beautiful winery made like a castle with a fantastic tasting roon.

Do they only use grapes grown from their vineyards in Ga? Do you remember the name?

 

[west_end]

This is interesting. Here is a List of wine-producing areas. It brakes down the US in to states and then regions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wine-producing_regions#United_States

 

[wildvines]

Texas has a great trend going with wine making. You can get great land in the high plains. The hill country is fantastic as well.


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[heatherd]

Plus no state taxes in Texas, low cost for land, long growing season, etc. There are lots of wineries and vineyards there making it work.


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