Rotten egg smell

[3274mike]

A couple weeks ago I came across a batch of concord wine that smelled horrible. I could not find the thread I was viewing but did as others suggested several racking getting I off the gross Lee's but still smelled. One reply said to put a mall piece of copper tubing in the wine. This led me to trying something hopefully with the same effect. Several months ago I had coiled a 5/8 copper tube into a bucket to make a wortt chiller for a friend wich he never picked up. So I took this wort chiller and racked the wine through it (after sanitizing it). And it worked no more smell very happy. Just wanted to share and thank people who reply to the threads with loads of suggestions and help

 

[Runningwolf]

Glad to hear it worked. Just stirring with a sanitized copper pipe probably would have done the same thing.

 

[3274mike]

But what's sounds cooler stirring wine with a copper pipe or sending it through a 20' copper coil

 

[NorCal]

I have not had the need (knock on wood) to rescue a wine with copper. If I did, I would be inclined to use a solution, so I know how much copper I'm introducing to the wine.

Clearly too much copper leaching into the wine due to the wine's pH is not a good thing. Perhaps it's negligible, but I would still want to know.

 

[Runningwolf]

NorCal, I agree with you. I do a copper test with 100ml of wine and just 1-3 drops of wine in each glass to determine the strength I need. Then I do the calculations to figure out how much liquid copper I need to add with a 10% solution of copper.

 

[JohnT]

IMHO, All winemakers will come across issues that need corrective action.
It is the GOOD winemakers that, after the corrective action is taken, go further to prevent issues from happening again. We have addressed the corrective action, but I do not think that we addressed the cause or how to prevent this from happening again.

Your "rotten egg" smell is H2S. This is a by product of either an inferior yeast or a yeast that is stressed or starved for nutrients. Can you tell us what type of yeast you are using and also if you add yeast nutrients?

 

[ColemanM]

I had a similar situation. I purchased 4 varietals of Luva Bella juice buckets from my LHBS back in 4-2013. They were all preinnoculated and pre balanced. After fermentation, they all smelled the same, tasted the same and we're all thin (pre WMT learnings). I tossed most after a year but kept 6 gallons of Cabernet with some Syrah and Merlot toppings. I had a friend over the other day and "poured" two glasses from the carboy to test it for drain fodder. Had the same odd off unpleasant smell that it always had but we tasted anyways. Great mouthfeel and taste. Racked it to another carboy with a wad of copper mesh in a funnel. Smell nice now but am afraid to dink it without knowing if the copper is dangerous. [emoji28] from one conundrum to another.

 

[JohnT]

I would say that it should be fine. If the smell has gone away, rack the wine again to get it off the copper. I would then give it a taste.

What most beginners may hot realize is that H2S exists in very minute amounts. Just 3 parts-per-million would knock you off your feet from the strength of the odor. Very little is needed to treat sulfur related issues.

IMHO, the best product to use to safely introduce measured-small amounts of copper into your wine is a product called redueless. This product is basically dead yeast that has been impregnated with small amounts of copper. It works well, settles out quickly, and is easily metered.

I highly recommend that you give redueless a try next time you have H2S issues.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

How about using Redulees? Everytime we make mulberry wine even with 50% more nutrients it stinks, but still tastes good! WVMJ

 

[3274mike]

In response to the earlier question the yeast was Red Star Pasteur Red. As for the nutrients I may have gone a little heavy on nutrients and energizer I was going for a dry wine. I use the dragon blood recipe for most of my measurements. With a little variance depending on what I am making. Starting sg 1.070. Started a bit slow so I added brew belt for a few hours until noticeable fermintation. Stirred once a day until .090 transferred to secondary at about 3 weeks in secondary noticed smell. After reading threads racked three times then treated with sparkolloid. Let set for 7 days and racked off lees. Only thing different was extra nutrient. Did notice my water filter that I use in wine room was somewhat dirty when adding water to must, filter has since been replaced(rusty water) but for couple years never had the filter. Also noted racking hose had smell after racking when th wine smelled, disagreed and replaced. Last not sure mentioned it is a concord wine not welches real thing. After racking through copper tubing(5gal) smell is gone and wine is smoother. Sorry for ramble but trying to give specifics.

 

[3274mike]

Ok been thinking aboutthe reply in this thread what is the concern about copper some said stir with a copper pipe some concerned with amount of copper introduced into wine use chemical I believe said use ruules. Please help me understand what is the concern with running wine through copper. Most homes have copper water lines. Some one said in another thread the use of a measured amount of copper sulfate which kills weeds in ponds this is a poison. JUst curious about what is genral thought behind this. I am not a chemist but wold like an explanation from people who have een doing this longer than me. Thanks for hlpe as usual

 

[volldez]

Running wine through copper pipe is not the same as drinking water (neutral PH) wine has different PH levels that will react with copper. Don't know anything about Copper sulfate, maybe some one else can chime in.
Rob

 

[stickman]

I'll give you my angle on this topic. Copper has been used in one form or another during winemaking for many years. Copper reacts with H2S to form Copper Sulfide which is a solid that drops out of the wine. Ideally you add just what is needed to remove the H2S so that very little copper remains in the wine after clarification. If you add more copper than needed, it will be free to react with other compounds, including flavors, and can give the wine a stripped or bland character. Reactive metals like copper and iron, if in excess, can catalyze oxidation reactions prematurely oxidizing your wine.
No reason to panic, but using just what is needed is best practice. I have seen old photos of winery racking operations using copper spigots on barrels when racking from one barrel to the next, or one copper coupling on the end of a hose when transferring between tanks.

 

[JohnT]

My advice is to drop the red star. This is very vulnerable to yeast breakdown. For dragon's blood, I would go with lalvin ec-1118. Add the usual nutrients, but in. Stages asI have pointed out.

 

[BlueStimulator]

This is a timely post, I had the rotten egg smell in some pear cider I was making, used yeast nutrient and ec-1118. I think the stress/smell came from the fact the it was really warm when when it was fermenting. Made a wire whisk/stir stick from some spare copper wire by twisting it. Used it and the smell mostly went away. Today I used the allinonewinepump to rack it (that thing is awesome to use) and still had a slight smell but the cider is stil young.

 

[JohnT]

This is a timely post, I had the rotten egg smell in some pear cider I was making, used yeast nutrient and ec-1118. I think the stress/smell came from the fact the it was really warm when when it was fermenting. Made a wire whisk/stir stick from some spare copper wire by twisting it. Used it and the smell mostly went away. Today I used the allinonewinepump to rack it (that thing is awesome to use) and still had a slight smell but the cider is stil young.

Can you tell me how long you waited before you removed the gross lees (aka the first racking after fermentation was completed).

 

[BlueStimulator]

I'll have to check my notes but I think a week. I did have an air lock on the primary

 

[BlueStimulator]

Can you tell me how long you waited before you removed the gross lees (aka the first racking after fermentation was completed).

7 days from pitching the yeast to the smell and I stirred with copper whisk/stir stick and racked them twice at 7 days Waited 6 weeks and racked them again with the allinonewinepump and have all three of the 3 gal carboys under the head space eliminators now.

I did bottle one flip top 750ml each of the pear cider, pear honey cider and pear brown sugar cider. I added one teaspoon of dextrose to bottles to see if I could get some CO2. I was thinking of using the dishwasher Pasteuring method when the CO2 was where I wanted it. I figured this might save me from bottle bombs.

 

[JohnT]

OK, 7 day is ok...

I am not familiar with the "Dishwasher Pasteurizing" method. Could you describe it?

 

[BlueStimulator]

It is about time and temp. Most dishwashers get to 120 degrees and hold that for about 70 to 90 minutes. I saw it on some brewing sites I need to do some more research the longer you go the lower the temp you need to kill the bugs. I am worried thatthe long temp exposure will effect the taste.

I did taste some of the cider and it has alcohol and off taste but it is young and well I have very little experience so not sure what the taste should be. Thinking about racking again in a few weeks and keeping it under vacuum until then.