RJ Spagnols RJS Super Tuscan Instructions vs Website

[TonyP]

I'll be starting an RJS Super Tuscan and have been following the forum on this kit: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/1st-taste-super-tuscan-32484/index4.html .

I noticed the kit instructions vary from RJS' website instructions for Super Tuscan with regard to days in primary (6-8 versus 14) but was planning on following the kit as a general rule for primary. kat50496 had the same observation he posted on the forum, above. Now I'm not as certain on what to do.

I'm hoping to get comments on this specific issue. Note the website says to wait 14 days until SG is .999 to 1.003.

Thoughts, please.

Tony P.

 

[roadpupp]

Conventional wisdom seems to be to do a ferment to dry in the primary to give maximum time on the skins.

I'm planning to do this kit once I get back from my overseas trip. As with others I will add a heavy "rocks glass" in the m

 

[Dugger]

I seem to be having trouble finding any instructions on RJS's website now for some reason - where are they located?
When I made this kit I used the 14 day +/- method rather than the one week; I like to get as much out of the skins as possible and feel this achieves that; I also think this approach results in more of the degassing being accomplished at this stage.
Last year when I was in Vancouver I went to the Spagnols headquarters and had a tour and they told me they were going to be revising their instructions; as part of this they had done some testing and their results showed that it took about 9 days to maximize extraction from the grapeskins. Perhaps the new instructions you have seen now reflect this.

 

[roadpupp]

Conventional wisdom seems to be to do a ferment to dry in the primary to give maximum time on the skins.

I'm planning to do this kit once I get back from my overseas trip. As with others I will add a heavy "rocks glass" in the mesh bag and agitate it for the first 4-5 days until I hit 1.020 SG and I'll seal the bucket and put on an airlock for a total of 20 days for maximum extraction. when I transfer to a carboy I'll squeeze the bag really well.

Looking forward to this kit!

 

[cpfan]

TonyP...like Dugger I did not find any kit instructions on the recently updated RJS web-site.

It appears that you are making a Cellar Craft Winery Series kit. (Please ALWAYS mention exactly what kit you are making.) In the past, the RJS brands that contain grape skins have had instructions calling for the 2-stage ferment (ie 7-8 days in primary, finish in a carboy), while the non-grape skin brands have called for fermenting to dry in the primary (ie 14 days).

Since Cellar Craft Winery Series is a grape skin brand, the instructions would be 8 days in primary. As I recall, the CCWS instructions were NOT on the old RJS web-site (cannot confirm this though). So the online instructions that you looked at would probably have been for the original Cellar Craft brand. This is not a grape skin brand, so would have a 14 day primary.

Steve

 

[kat50496]

Steve, on the new RJS site, you have to go to the specific type and brand (Winery Series) and the link to the PDF instructions is on each individual style when you open the description. The instructions are the same for all in the series - these are all grape skin kits.

 

[cpfan]

Steve, on the new RJS site, you have to go to the specific type and brand (Winery Series) and the link to the PDF instructions is on each individual style when you open the description. The instructions are the same for all in the series - these are all grape skin kits.

Thanks kat. IMO, very poor location for the kit instructions, but I guess I just have to get used to their new site. At least, they are a pdf of the kit instructions rather than text as they were at the previous web-site.

TonyP...the instructions on the web are 14 days in the primary, and are copyright 2006. Are the instructions included with the kit newer? I seem to recall that the instructions changed (say about 2008 or 2009).

Steve

EDIT..or maybe 2007

 

[drazil]

From what I can gather from reading this site Spagnols did change their instructions a while back from the 14 day primary to the primary/secondary method. Don't quote me on it, but I think it had something to do with people getting carried away with stirring the wine after the heavy fermentation stage (down to 1.02 or so) and causing oxidation.

Another concern I've heard about the Winery Series kits is getting them to ferment dry. 0.999 to 1.003 seems a bit high to me. The dealer I bought this kit (CCWS Super Tuscan) from suggested using 2 yeast packets and a pinch of nutrient. So I did. I went 7 days in primary, started at 1.105, stirred it hard for the first few days, at least twice a day until the heavy foaming subsided. After that I tried to stir about once a day gently to keep the skins wet and release CO2. After 7 days I went to glass secondary at 1.003. After 14 days in secondary I hit 0.994, so I'm not really concerned about a stuck ferment or off dry wine.

Only another year or so to wait & see how it turns out.

There are plenty of people on here that do the 14 day primary to maximize skin contact time but the key is to lock it down after the SG hits 1.010 or so to keep the oxygen outta there.

Also, after 18 wine kits plus a bit of blackberry hooch I was making a few years ago, I've never had a stuck fermentation, but I rehydrate the yeast before pitching it. This is contrary to the instructions in the kit but correct to the instructions on the yeast packet. YMMV.


Good luck.

 

[Wade E]

I ferment to dry in primary with almost all my wines but especially with kits with grape packs. Once sg gets down to around 1.020 I snap the lid down and airlock it and just slosh the bucket around to keep the fruit wet.

 

[TonyP]

There's a lot of good information here. I have a follow-up question for those using the 14-day timetable: do you remove the oak after week 1?

 

[tonyt]

Sometimes I ferment to dry in primary and sometimes I rack at 1.0??. If the instructions call for a clean rack (leaving most sediment behind) I rack to secondary as instructed, removing the grape pack. If instructions call for a dirty rack (stir sediment and transfer as much as possible) then I just remove the grape pack, give it a good stir, snap on the lid and airlock and let it sit till dry. Also if I am adding grape pack or raisins that did not come with the kit I remove it at about the ten day mark for sure. So I guess in short by day 10 I am removing the grape pack.
BTW I have read on some threads that some folks believe leaving a grape pack that has stems in more than 10 days may add a veg-ital taste to the wine. I cannot confirm nor deny that.

 

[kat50496]

Thanks kat. IMO, very poor location for the kit instructions, but I guess I just have to get used to their new site. At least, they are a pdf of the kit instructions rather than text as they were at the previous web-site.

TonyP...the instructions on the web are 14 days in the primary, and are copyright 2006. Are the instructions included with the kit newer? I seem to recall that the instructions changed (say about 2008 or 2009).

Steve

EDIT..or maybe 2007

Steve, good catch on the copywrite date on the on-line instructions. The instructions included in the kit are copywrite 2007, and interestingly enough, under the copywrite date it has "INST SHT NEW CC WINERY 3"

I take this to indicate they have old instructions on their website.... I will follow the instructions included with my kit. Thanks

 

[kat50496]

Now that the mystery surrounding the instructions has been solved, what do you all recommend for top up wine for this one? I have merlot, sangiovese, and some WE amarone available. What have you, or are you, using? Thanks

 

[tonyt]

A super Tuscan would likely have both Sangiovese and Merlot in the blend along with Cabernet. The Amarone would be completely different grapes from a completely different growing region. There is no set recipe for a Super Tuscan. If you know a commercial ST that you love read on the label and it may say what grapes are in the blend. I don't see anywhere where RJS says what grapes are in the blend. Just be sure that you use something that you like a lot.