Other Regina Juice

[Big Ike]

I picked up 10 gallons of Chardonnay grape juice today form a local produce house (I've referenced in other posts). They bring in juice and grapes every year from CA. Anybody worked with the Regina juice before?

The juice looked great, smelled great and tasted great. The pH was at 3.6, so I didn't mess with the acidity. I did add just a touch of sugar to take the sg from 1.084 to 1.094 - I don't know why I like the sound of 12.5 better than 11, but I do.

I planned on making three completely different batches, but got distracted by my Little Beauties (pictured left) and ended up with two different batches and one blend of the two with a different yeast. All got a dose of bentonite and Go Ferm.

Here's what I'm doing (and to placate Mike I will post photos when I figure that out

):

Batch A was inoculated with Vintner's Harvest Yeast CL23 and received a dose of Opti-white.

Batch B was inoculated with Vintner's Harvest Yeast BV7 and received Lallyzme.

Batch C was inoculated with D47 and is a combination of juice from A & B above so it has both Opti-white and Lallyzme in it.

The plan is to add nutrient at 1.070, 1.045 and 1.020 for each batch. I plan on two different Malolactic bacteria strains for two of the batches above and none for the blended batch.

All batches will be exposed to light toast American Oak spirals for the same duration (I think).

I'm not too proud and open to suggestions.

Thanks,

 

[Big Ike]

Mike,
These are for you.


I can now resize and upload photos. So here are the Chardonnay's that I'm making:

Here's the top down for A,B, & C.

 

[Big Ike]

Started malolactic fermentation yesterday. A and C were inoculated with WPL 675 and B got Lalvin Bacchus.

 

[Big Ike]

Here's an update:

The malolactic fermentation seems to be progressing nicely with B and C. Little to no activity in A.

Tested A for free SO2 and it was between 13 and 18 - right on the edge of what mlf will tolerate. It may be that the CL23 yeast is not mlf friendly, although I didn't read anything about that in its literature.

Any recommendations, please let me know.

Thanks,

 

[ibglowin]

Wow! Looks like you have been busy this weekend. Nice little experiment to boot.

Great pics, can't wait to see the follow up post on how things progress!

 

[grapeman]

I'm trying to figure out why you did any malo on a Chardonnay with a pH of 3.6??????? It will likely come out a bit higher than desireable with pH and probably way to low on TA. The end result will be a dull, flabby wine with little character. White wines need a bit of acid in them to be good. It should have been right on with what you had. I don't mean to be discoraging, I just can't imagine using three perfectly good batches of wine for such an experiment.


I hope I am mistaken with this and it turns out great. Please let us know.

By the way, did you test for TA before deciding to try such a thing on a white wine? Most whites never see a mlf and then it is with a pH under 3.2 or a TA above 10-12 g/L TA. I realize that it has become traditional with California Chardonnays to oak and do a malo on them, but is it really what produces the best wine?

 

[admiral]

What is the purpose of malolactic fermentation? Do any of the kits have a step for malolactic?Is it a taste thing or something that is necessary with with some wines? I don't mean to take thread off topic. Just curious after reading the foregoing.

 

[grapeman]

No kits recommend malolactic fermentation. They have been balanced for production without it being necessary or desireable. Even with juice, there is a place for it and many places without. For instance, you have a sharply acidic white wine. Should you perform malo on it? That depends. Do you want to sweeten it after fermentation? If so unless you have capabilities to do sterile filtering with smaller than 0.45 microns in size, you will need to add sorbate. Sorbate and mlf do NOT go together. They produce off flavors and smells of rotting geraniums.

 

[Big Ike]

Appleman,

I am a rookie winemaker stepping outside the comfort of the kit. I started this obsession in May. I've done six kits to date with 5 out of 6 surprising me with the quality of the final product (two are bottled, four are getting a different oak treatment than prescribed by the kit).

I had the opportunity to buy fresh juice and jumped at it. Really haven't had the experience to determine when a mlf is advisable/necessary. I've tested for malic acid and it shows in the 300 plus range. I don't have anything in my notes for TA, but you can bet I'll be testing for that next time.

I'm not discouraged by your comments one bit. Happy to have the assistance and feedback. Please keep it coming!

In light of your comments above regarding sorbate and mlf, would you recommend stopping the process now by filtering what I've got and oaking or bottling. Or do you think I may have screwed myself and will be unable to avoid the sorbate and off odors?

Thanks,

 

[Tom]

One of the great things about getting fresh juice is that it is BALANCED. that meaning it is at the right brix and acid level for the profile. all you need to do is add 1/4 tsp k-meta and wait 24 hours for the temp to stabilize. And the add the yeast. I f you are not sure which one to use just come back here and ask.

Enjoy !

I us alot of fresh juice. I get the California, Italian and Chilean fresh juice.

Something to look forward to if your supplier can get it.

 

[grapeman]

Once you have innoculated with malolactic bacteria, the only course is to run it to completion. Forget about filtering unless you can sterile filter- which like I said requires special equipment. Let it run until it is done as verified by a malic acid test or chromatography test. When it is done, you may want to add a bit of oak, then get it's sulfite levels up to a safe level. You may end up with a nice buttery oaked chardonnay like is or was popular in California. Just don't expect a nice fruit forward chard. Good luck with the project.

 

[Big Ike]

I do have access to the equipment necessary to filter as you suggest. Would that change your recommendation?

I do like the big butter/big oak CA style from the late 80's/90's. Oddly enough, I found a WA Chard that fits that profile for $10 last year - Gordons. I bought two cases.

I'll let you know how it goes. Now I'm just hoping to avoid the geraniums - I hate those.

Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate the input.

 

[Big Ike]

One of the great things about getting fresh juice is that it is BALANCED. that meaning it is at the right brix and acid level for the profile. all you need to do is add 1/4 tsp k-meta and wait 24 hours for the temp to stabilize. And the add the yeast. I f you are not sure which one to use just come back here and ask.

Enjoy !

I us alot of fresh juice. I get the California, Italian and Chilean fresh juice.

Something to look forward to if your supplier can get it.</font>

Tom,

I should have figured that out on the front end. My buddy that got me into this told me that all they do let the juice ferment with the natural yeast that come on it and filter. After a the kits that I've done, I should have had a clue.

The bad news is that I may have wasted some chard juice. The good news is that I've got a few more pails to go and won't repeat the error.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[grapeman]

Ike I'm not sure what is the best way to proceed with these. I would probably just let them go and try for the butter thing. Those aren't sweetened anyways, so even if you sterile filter, I would stay away from the sorbate- it won't be necessary and there are nor chances of the geraniol forming. If you let these go and have some more to do, try to make a few without the mlf and compare how they turn out.

 

[Wade E]

You have acess to an Enolmatic with a .025 filter? You lucky SOB!

 

[Big Ike]

My brother's got an awesome set of tools...

Not really, my buddy the oral surgeon is the one with the tools. He tells me they can filter out any bug that may be in the juice.

His family has been making wine at home for 20 plus years and have gradually added a lot of stuff for the process.