Questions for the wine makers

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Wine making is not an exact science. The recipes are just guides. I know, I watch my wife cook. She has recipes and follows them . . . somewhat. If a wine recipe works for you, use it. Feel free to change / experiment it. If you want to do a little reading on the internet about wine making, may I suggest Jack Keller at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/starting.asp. I refer to his methods and recipes frequently.
 
Most of the time I'm:
2- gets O2 into must
2-keeps my carboys busy and allows me to view progress.
2-clear, P. Sorbate, sweeten, wait a couple weeks and bottle.
Almost all my wines are back sweetened.
 
So, after reading these 5 pages, things are clearer now and I appreciate the clarifications! The one question I didn't see answered is: When racking from the primary vessel to the secondary vessel BEFORE dry, how much of the lees do you transfer to the secondary vessel, or conversely how much of the lees do you leave in the primary vessel and discard?
 
So, after reading these 5 pages, things are clearer now and I appreciate the clarifications! The one question I didn't see answered is: When racking from the primary vessel to the secondary vessel BEFORE dry, how much of the lees do you transfer to the secondary vessel, or conversely how much of the lees do you leave in the primary vessel and discard?

I transfer them all, when I want the fermentation to continue to 'dry'. When fermentation has stopped (same SG for 3 days in a row), I'll then isolate the 'gross lees', usually in a quart jar, and allow them to settle so I can recover wine I would otherwise lose, without those lees impacting the flavor of the whole batch.
 
As A newbie, what are "Gross Lees" compared to the rest of the gunk in the bottom of the carboy and how do you isolate just them? Should I assume that after racking to the secondary vessel, you wait until dry, then rack again into another carboy and pour the lees from the first carboy into a quart jar to further settle?
 
Rightly or wrongly, I leave most of the gross lees behind, only taking what I inadvertantly slurp up with the racking cane. As Deezil indicated, I also put the gross lees in a quart jar to settle to recover some more wine for topping up later.
 
As A newbie, what are "Gross Lees" compared to the rest of the gunk in the bottom of the carboy and how do you isolate just them? Should I assume that after racking to the secondary vessel, you wait until dry, then rack again into another carboy and pour the lees from the first carboy into a quart jar to further settle?

Gross lees is everything included in the first sediment-drop; fruit pieces, large amounts of dead yeast - anything that has precipitated out in the first couple days after fermentation has finished. These lees are often fluffy or chunky in appearance, and when left in the wine for an extended time, will begin to degrade, and long story short, end up causing flavors and aromas, that are definitely unwanted.

After gross lees, are 'sur lees', which are finer, more like a fine dusting on the bottom of the carboy, and these take several weeks to gather. These are mostly dead yeast, and are used (on some wine styles) for techniques like battonage; they aren't going to harm the wine as quickly, although they can seem to put a damper on the aroma of a wine, so it's recommended in most cases to rack off of these lees often enough to limit exposure without over-exposing the wine to oxygen from repeated rackings.

And your assumption, is right on-target. When the SG has been the same for three days, I'll rack from that - usually carboy - to another carboy, leaving behind all the sediment I can; the sediment goes into a quart jar for settling.

Most times, personally, I'll run my vacuum pump pre-racking the gross lees, to get more of the solids to drop & I'll give it an hour or two to settle - just whenever I get back to it later in the same day, and rack it off the sediment then. Between the vacuum-degassing, and racking off the gross lees to another carboy, the sur lees drop faster it seems. I've also been playing with meads recently though, and they hold more dissolved CO2 for whatever reason - massive amounts of degassing to do, to get all the sediment to drop.
 
Fermentation to bucket or not

From the beginning i have made wine in a open fermenter,better surface area to work in, a greater surface space for the oxygen to encourage the yeast to become more active,and to control the overall operating conditions of the wine,i have control,and if i chose to move the wine it,s easier to transfer without spilling ,whether i symphony or mechanical transfer,but you need the room and the speed to do this on command ,your always watching the SG, that's the clock,transferring just before you go totally dry for me,is, the key i watch for,.



THE LEES CAN STAY RIGHT WERE THEY ARE UNLESS YOUR RECYCLING THEM THROUGH ,BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE IN A OPEN FERMENTER,WITH FRESH JUST OR A KIT ,WITH GRAPES YOUR PUNCHING DOWN ALL THE WHILE,DEEZIL IS CORRECT IN THE FACT IT CAN BE DONE IF YOU ARE IN A GLASS OR CASK AND SOMETIMES I DO JUST THAT BEFORE GOING INTO A THIRD STAGE SETTLEMENT,BEFORE CHEMS AND FINING AGENTS MOSTLY ON REDS.JUST MY THOUGHTS.................JP

I KNOW THIS WILL TOUCH OF A STORM OF DISCONTENT,BECARFUL USING A VACUUM PUMP SYSTEM,THEY HAVE A DOWN SIDES FOR THE INEXPERIENCED USER......BUT IT CAN BE A GOOD TOOL TO HAVE IN YOUR TOOL BOX FOR THE RIGHT PURPOSE..


10 yeast on top.jpg

11 makes 6 gals.jpg

7 SG.jpg

3 amarone racking.jpg
 
Last edited:
I wonder if anyone would care to elaborate on the reasons for the timing of adding sorbate? I have done it with clear wine and with cloudy wine. Doesn't seem to matter much from my experience.
 
I KNOW THIS WILL TOUCH OF A STORM OF DISCONTENT,BECARFUL USING A VACUUM PUMP SYSTEM,THEY HAVE A DOWN SIDES FOR THE INEXPERIENCED USER......BUT IT CAN BE A GOOD TOOL TO HAVE IN YOUR TOOL BOX FOR THE RIGHT PURPOSE..

Joe,
Care to elaborate what the downsides are? It would be helpful to know how to "be careful using a vacuum pump system" and what to watch for.
 
I wonder if anyone would care to elaborate on the reasons for the timing of adding sorbate? I have done it with clear wine and with cloudy wine. Doesn't seem to matter much from my experience.
I'll let one of the smart members explain the reason for adding Sorbate but I can comment on the when. I usually hold off on adding the Sorbate until close to bottling time. That's when I decide if I will add any back sweetening syrup or sugar. If I add any sugar product (usually no more than 4 ounces per 6 gallons of wine) then I add the Sorbate. If I never add any sugars I don't use the Sorbate at all.

And you're right it doesn't matter when you add the Sorbate.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top