Questions about PH, T.A, new meter, Frontenac/Elderberry.

[Masbustelo]

In September I fermented together about 4 gallons of Frontenac must with about one gallon of elderberry. I thought perhaps the high tannin, low acid elderberry would balance out the low tannin, high acid Frontenac. It appears that I'm at about 4.0 PH, and 6.25 T.A. Ought I add some tartaric acid to lower the PH? If so how much? Also I have a Milwaukee MW 102 meter. When I try to calibrate it, it reads like 3.95 on the low end and 6.95 on the high. Is this normal, or something to be concerned about. Or close enough?

 

[grapeman]

First off I would calibrate it properly. Use fresh test solutions so you know they are correct. If it auto-calibrates it should read the same as the test solutions when it is done. I'm thinking if it was calibrated right, your number would be great as is post-fermentation. Calibrate it before adding anything else.

 

[Masbustelo]

Twice I've used fresh packets and neither time did it calibrate to what the packets are labeled as.

 

[grapeman]

Are you using the temperature probe at the same time to allow for temperature differences? If so how old is the probe? They can go bad if handled rough, etc. If you want to verify your procedure here is a Youtube video for calibrating it [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1HAdkBK2YY[/ame]

 

[Masbustelo]

I did get the meter to calibrate correctly. Amazingly enough it seems to be the problem was operator error and operator inexperience. It appears that my true conundrum is that the wine Ph is 4.1. I'm considering amelioration with tartaric acid down to maybe 3.8 and then do cold treatment afterwards. I was reading that any extra tartaric acid in time will tend to crystalize out and in the process leave me with a better Ph for long term storage etc.?

 

[Turock]

You don't want to cold stabilize this wine, as the PH is already too high. CS may raise the PH rather than lowering it. The intent with CS is to drop out some of the acid. I would add some acid to it and leave it alone. As you add acid, let your taste guide you to where it tastes the best, regardless of the resulting PH.

 

[Julie]

I would get your ph to 3.4 - 3.45.

 

[Turock]

I recently had a sample of Frontenac at my friend's commercial winery down the road from me. I think he had the PH around 3.4 or so. I would add acid until I liked the flavor---and stop there.

 

[Masbustelo]

I added about 100 grams of acid and it took the Ph to 3.95 and T.A. to .95. It would take enormous amounts to move it much farther. I think it will still make a nice wine, and I'm going to leave it where it is.

 

[Julie]

Let it sit for a week or two then taste it. I think you will like it.

 

[Masbustelo]

Merry Christmas, and thanks to everyone for the feedback.

 

[Reluctant Chemist]

Hi, I'd go for a tartaric acid addition, say 1 g/L. The TA level seems a little low. Cold stabilizing may raise the pH, but also may not. Lots of times when the pH is high(er) and TA low to moderate it is because the juice has a high potassium level. CS drops out the potassium first. You make have to readjust the TA with more acid after the first CS, but the pH should drop down more with the second addition. A caution, I didn't see a comment on how the wine tasted. If your blend is not flabby, then you probably don't have to adjust at all.

 

[Masbustelo]

Reluctant Chemist I think I am dealing with the high potassium level situation. I added 100 grams of Tartaric acid recently that hardly moved the pH but greatly increased the T.A. to about .95. I read an article recently that said that red wines are somewhat self adjusting regarding acid, and that over time the excess acid will drop out of solution. I have it in a room that will be in the F 50's for the next few months. If the T.A and pH changes we'll see what happens. If not I've been thinking maybe I'll experiment with raising the F.G a little. I suspect my original error was not testing and adjusting at the ferment, but I didn't have the ability at the time.

 

[Masbustelo]

Julie you were right about tasting it in several weeks. Initially after I added the acid it tasted horrible, now I'm liking it quite a bit. It is surprising how the acid is being incorporated into the wine. Also the Elderberry flavor is becoming less dominant and is dying down.