Question about racking

[koolaide187]

I am fairly new to making wine and I am hearing mixed opinions about racking/stirring wine. I had some wine that smelled like rotten eggs and I read some stuff on the internet about racking the wine to get the smell to go away and also add potassium metabisulfite to do the same. Well I ended up having to do both but I got the smell to go away. I use grape concentrate to make my wine right now. My question starts as this... I have heard when racking the wine to let your siphon sit at the bottom as to not allow much oxygen to be introduced to the wine. Well I know an old man who makes the best wine tell me he stirs his all the time and has never had that rotten egg smell. He suggested I start stirring the wine more. So I am kinda lost. Should I be letting the wine sit with as little as much oxygen get to it and stir good after adding the yeast? If you're wondering yes i use a air lock. I am lost as far as this goes... should I stir the wine semi often?

 

[Rocky]

The rotten egg smell is Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) and normally comes from yeast that is stressed. Your old friend is correct. One way to eliminate the smell is to stir the wine very well and get some Oxygen into it. However, that step is only safe prior to the end of fermentation. Once fermentation stops, i.e. all or most of the sugar is consumed by the yeast and turned into alcohol and CO2, you want to limit exposure to Oxygen as much as possible. Another way to elimiate it is to "splash rack" the wine, i.e. rack in from one vessel into another so that the wine splashes and thereby takes up Oxygen. I have had success in stirring the wine with a copper wire whisk that I fashioned from about 6 feet of ground wire from a three conductor romex cable. I stirred it with the whisk and then hung the whisk into the wine from the side of the fermenter. The H2S combines with the Cu and takes it out of the wine. Your confusion on Oxygen and wine is understandable and many people are. In general, Oxygen is a friend during fermentation and and a foe afterward.

Hope this helps.

 

[koolaide187]

my problem was that smell at the very beginning of the fermentation process. Matter of fact the day after I added the yeast. He thinks it may have been the fact that I might not had sanitized my bucket good enough or the fact i didn't know to add water into my air lock. Like I said I am new to it and there is a learning curve. So how often should I stir it at the first stage of the fermentation process? He said wait about 4 days after adding the yeast to rack it. Since I am so new I am having trouble understanding the whole letting air get into it by stirring and not letting air get into it when racking... I generally a smart person but when it comes to this for some reason I am not understanding it. Rocky you said it's only safe prior to the end. But since I had the problem with the smell at the beginning I don't know for sure what to think. Either way I added the metibisulfite and stirred a lot and the smell is gone. I think my yeast slowed down a lot from the metibisulfite but after 24 hours i added another pack of yeast and it has begun again. Smell is gone and all is well. All I really need to know is should I stir regardless if it has a smell or not and how often if so?

 

[Rocky]

I think you are okay, but just for informaiton, what yeast did ou use? What kind of fermentation bucket do you have (i.e size, material, etc)? Do you have and use a hydrometer? What grape concentrate did you use? I would be happy to help, but I need more information.

 

[Rocky]

A couple of things can be answered with the information that you have given.

From what you have said, you noticed the smell the day after you pitched the yeast. I am assuming that you had the wine in some type of fermenting bucket with a top (I am basing this on the mention of the airlock). As far as not cleaning and sanitizing the bucket well enough, I doubt there would be an H2S odor in a day unless the bucket was filthy with visable mold and/or bacteria. As long as you cleaned it with hot water and a good detergent (I use Oxiclean), rinsed it well and hopefully added some K-meta solution, that should not have been the source of the problem. In the early stages of fermentation you do not even need an airlock because so much CO2 is coming out of the wine. Just the lid laid on top of the fermenter (i.e. not snapped down) will do. Therefore, not having a liquid in the airlock would not be the problem.

Stirring is a good idea on a daily basis (even a couple times a day) in the primary to re-suspend the yeast which has fallen to the bottom of the fermenter. This will give you a more complete fermentation.

Dividing fermentation into primary and secondary stages is somewhat arbitrary, but primary is generally from the beginning SG (specific gravity) to about an SG of 1.010 to 1.040, which coincides with the first racking. At this time, a good amount of CO2 is still coming out of the wine so the danger of Oxygen is still minimal. CO2 is heavier than air so it lies on top of the surface of the wine, blocking oxygen. It is when fermentation stops (around an SG of 0.995) that you must start to concern yourself with exposure to Oxygen. This is when you need to fill your carboys to within 2 inches of the stopper so that only the small cross section of the neck of the carboy is exposed to Oxygen.

A couple more points: Fill your airlocks with a mixture of water and K-meta to make sure no bacteria enters the wine through the airlock. Also, if you don't have one, get a hydromter ASAP. I do take issue with one thing that your friend told you (to wait about 4 days after adding the yeast to rack it). When to rack depends on the chemistry of the wine, the specific gravity. It cannot be accurately measured in "days" only by a hydrometer. After four days, the SG could be still high and putting the wine into a carboy invites the infamous "wine volcano" that will blow the stopper and airlock right out of the carboy.

 

[koolaide187]

I used red star yeast monosacorat or however you spell it. In a 6 gallon plastic bucket with a spigot at the bottom. Right above the sediment line. I used a hydrometer and know how to use it. and as far as the concentrate i just used about 15 cans of that welches concord grape concentrate at walmart. It seems to come out cheaper than buying the stuff from the wine store.

 

[koolaide187]

Also i was told by the same old guy that if I get the hydrometer to read 1.090 the alcohol contents should come out around 12%. Is that about right? It may also depend on volume of the content but I am not sure.

 

[Rocky]

Sounds like you have done everything right. Just have patience and it will turn out fine.

Starting with an SG of 1.090 will give you about 12% (actually 11.8%) alcohol if you ferment it to an SG of 1.000. I prefer the formula: ABV = (Isg-Fsg) x 131 where Isg is the initial specific gravity and Fsg is the final specific gravity. You will find as you let the wine ferment the SG will dip below 1.000 to something like 0.995 or so. This is because the sugar is being converted into alcohol and alcohol is lighter than water. So, if you started with 1.090 and end with 0.995, the alcohol by volume (ABV) should be just under 12.5%. The wine at this point would be dry (i.e. no sweetness) and if you wanted it a little sweeter you would stabilize it with Potassium Sorbate to inhibit a restart of fermentation and add simple syrup (two parts sugar dissolved in one part water) to taste.

 

[koolaide187]

Have you ever had a batch of wine that fermented fully before a month and a half? Like if I added enough sugar to make it go to 1.090 and fermented it for about 3 weeks and it stops? If I added more yeast and nothing happens still? This hasn't happened yet but wondering if you have ever had something similar happen?

 

[robie]

Have you ever had a batch of wine that fermented fully before a month and a half? Like if I added enough sugar to make it go to 1.090 and fermented it for about 3 weeks and it stops? If I added more yeast and nothing happens still? This hasn't happened yet but wondering if you have ever had something similar happen?

if it has stopped, what is its current SG? Maybe it is already dry.

You can't ever go by time. Fermentation times will vary widely, depending on the fruit, yeast, temperature, sugar level, and stirring, to name a few.

Most of my wines ferment to dry in much less than 30 days. It certainly is not unusual if it finishes in 3 weeks, depending on the fruit.

Use your hydrometer! When the SG has NOT fallen for three days in a row, fermentation has stopped. If that "final" SG reading is at or below about .998, consider the wine to be dry. It's done! A little lower SG is even better, but some wines just won't go any lower. Just let it go until it stops for three days in a row.

If fermentation stops above .998, pitching more yeast many times will not work, depending on how low the SG is when it stops. The alcohol already in the wine will kill the new yeast on contact.

Restarting fermentation on a wine that has an SG reading below about 1.002 is almost impossible. If the SG is above that point, sometimes a special yeast starter with a highly tolerant yeast strain can be made to start fermentation again, but it can be a challenge.

Oh, that smell? If it was that early on in fermentation, it was likely just the smell of a strong fermentation. Sometimes, depending on the fruit and the yeast combination, the smell can be pretty strong. Some people like that smell, others hate it.

 

[koolaide187]

The wine is now reading below 1.000 consistently so I guess my wine is done. It's only been about a month since I started it. It is still pretty thick in body. I am thinking maybe I should rack it again one last time before filtering it. Since it is done fermenting should I wait the suggested 21 days for it to just clear up a bit on it's own?

Also should I be adding the potassium metabisulfite now or the day before I bottle the wine? I am thinking I should add it now... then add the potassium sorbate the day before bottling. Also it has a slight off smell to it. Almost musty smelling. It isn't that off putting and I read that it should go away within the 21 days of waiting. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for all your help guys. Y'all have made my wine making experience a lot more understandable and enjoyable not having to worry so much about it. Being able to ask questions and being answered at a very timely manner is much appreciated and helps a lot.

 

[robie]

The wine is now reading below 1.000 consistently so I guess my wine is done. It's only been about a month since I started it. It is still pretty thick in body. I am thinking maybe I should rack it again one last time before filtering it. Since it is done fermenting should I wait the suggested 21 days for it to just clear up a bit on it's own?

Also should I be adding the potassium metabisulfite now or the day before I bottle the wine? I am thinking I should add it now... then add the potassium sorbate the day before bottling. Also it has a slight off smell to it. Almost musty smelling. It isn't that off putting and I read that it should go away within the 21 days of waiting. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for all your help guys. Y'all have made my wine making experience a lot more understandable and enjoyable not having to worry so much about it. Being able to ask questions and being answered at a very timely manner is much appreciated and helps a lot.

Just being below SG is below 1.000 doesn't mean it is finished fermenting. Yes, it does need to be below that point, but it also needs to not drop any for three days in a row. It could finish anywhere from .990 to .998.

Normally, you should add your stabilizing Kmeta as soon as secondary is finished, which is long before the wine is clear.

Yes, let the wine clear for the recommended 21 days. Did you add a clearing agent (clarifier)? If not, it won't be clear in 21 days; it could take much longer, maybe 6 months. That is OK if that is your intention. I many times don't use any clarifiers.

The wine needs to be clear before you filter. If you try to filter unclear wine, your filter will stop up about every 1/2 gallon that goes through it. Filering is more for polishing the wine than it is for removing cloudiness.

 

[koolaide187]

Yea it's been below 1.000 for the past 5 days actually. It's around .098 actually and not moving. What kind of clarifying agent do you recommend? I have heard of many but have never used any so advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Flem]

FWIW I use Super-Kleer K.C. It's a two-part liquid clearing agent comprised of Kieselsol and Chitosan. I've used it several times and it has always worked great for me. Good Luck!

 

[trevor]

Some yeasts give off a strong smell of rotton eggs.
It is part of the fun. It is nothing to worry about

 

[robie]

Some yeasts give off a strong smell of rotton eggs.
It is part of the fun. It is nothing to worry about

The "strong" rotten egg smell is actually H2S in your wine. It is something you can and should always try to afford. Most generally it is caused by yeast getting severely stressed because of lack of nutrients during fermentation.

Other causes:
wine being left on the lees too long (normally red wines)
yeast not receiving enough oxygen during the primary phase of fermentation.

 

[koolaide187]

Will bentonite alone work pretty good or should I use something else also?
The reason I ask that is because I already have a bottle of bentonite and instead of going out and buying something else I could just use that. But if suggested I could try something other than just buying some Super Kleer as suggested earlier.

 

[robie]

Will bentonite alone work pretty good or should I use something else also?
The reason I ask that is because I already have a bottle of bentonite and instead of going out and buying something else I could just use that. But if suggested I could try something other than just buying some Super Kleer as suggested earlier.

Everything you ever wanted to know about clarifiers:

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/article/indices/12-clarityfiltration/26-a-clearer-understanding-of-fining-agents

This is a pretty good list of clarifiers and what each brings to the table.