Proper sanitation learned the hard way

[Fog]

It was a sad weekend, had to pitch 9 Cases of wine that I had bottled since September. I was rearranging some of the bottles and I notice “Ropiness” in them. So after much reading I found that they might be able to be saved, but the bad part is I have no unused Carboys so this was not really an option. After discussing with my wife we decided that it would be best to pitch them and try again. Most of these were Peach variants and Watermelon. We had received the fruit from a friend that has relatives on a fruit farm in western Colorado, so we will attempt again next fall. I think I have narrowed the timing down to right after the flood here in Colorado because the two months that followed that everything that was bottled had to go. Fortunately my Dragons Blood was bottled just before that so it’s still good, although that too is nearly gone… I have 12 more gallons in process so no worries there. I have completely sanitized EVERYTHING that even remotely comes close to my wine.
So some lessons learned:
1. Sanitize, Sanitize and more Sanitize I thought I was doing a good enough job, but I found out differently.
2. Pitch your tubing when in doubt. I thing that’s where the bacteria was hiding. I use a different shorter one when I rack my wine so I’m thinking that why I didn’t see any indications in the carboys. I had thought about chucking it and getting new, Shoulda Woulda Coulda…
3. Everything is mow going to bulk age for 2-3 months before I bottle, I think that this will give me a better chance at catching something that goes bad.
4. Get a SO2 tester. I was trying to minimize the amount of SO2 in my wines… Again without knowing what’s really in there I was driving blind and I probably didn’t have enough.
5. Top up with only water from my Zero Filter -- sounds simple but again I was cutting corners.
If you guys have any other suggestions I would love to hear them, I have only been doing this since March of 2013 and there is SO much to learn. I read the forums nearly every day and have learned a ton of info. Also I currently have 19 batches in various stages any suggestions on what I should do to those so that they are safe?
Thanks
Rob

 

[DirtyDawg10]

Wow! That sucks! Sounds like you came up with several ways to improve on your process. Good luck!

 

[bkisel]

First... Welcome to the forum.

That's a bummer. Hope everything else is okay and the issue never happens a second time.

 

[garymc]

From what I've read, watermelon is the hardest to keep from spoiling.

 

[Turock]

What do you mean by "ropiness?" Do you mean streamers of sediment or haze?

 

[jamesngalveston]

Good question Turock..I ask the same, what do you mean by ropiness.
sediment, are what. can you post a pic.

 

[GreginND]

Are you sure it's not just a protein haze? Protein instability in wine is common and leads to haze and ropey particulates. You are assuming bacterial infection, but what kind of bacteria do you think it is?

 

[Turock]

I'm voting for protein haze. One time, a member of the wine club brought his peach to me and asked what he could do with it because he had streamers of protein haze thruout it. And it DID look like ropes in the bottle. I'll be anxious to hear the answer from Fog. Too bad he didn't ask us about this before he threw it out.

 

[Fog]

Your right I am just guessing. I am new to this and the best description that I could find fit that. I know nothing about Protein Haze. The wine was very clear and looked good except for the stringy/rope things. I still have some Peach Mango (30 Bottles) that seem to have started with the same problem. They have not been bottle very long ago so only a couple of bottles are showing signs. The pictures did not come out as clear as I would have liked but the more I would move the bottle the "stuff" would start to dissolve. The ones that I pitched the "stuff" was very clear and easy to see. So if it is Protein Haze what do I do? I have some peach mango and Peach Chardonnay that may suffer from the same issue.

Thanks again for the help, and Yes I should have come here first, I was just so bummed I didn't know what to do...

 

[Val]

How did it taste and smell as you pitched it? It looks like the ropes are sediment. Did the ropes maintain their integrity or dissolve when you moved the bottle's contents around?

 

[Fog]

The smell and taste was fine... However this has only recently been bottled in some of the ones that I bottled in September the ropes were mostly "solid" and did not break very easy and they were opaque and very defined. Looked kinda like a worm... Not something that looks good in a wine bottle, Tequila maybe, but not wine...

 

[Turock]

OK Fog---Sit down, pour a glass of wine and sit back because I'm gonna take you to school: Are you using pectic enzyme in your musts? This is very important on fruit wines. You have to get the fruit broken down or else you can't clear it. You should be using the better pectinases that are on the market now, like Lallzyme C-Max. It is specifically for viscous musts--like peach--and more rapidly de-pectinizes the must than regular pectic enzyme. It aids in giving the wine more clarity.

When making fruit wines from dense fruits like peach, pear,apple plum,etc., you should always use bentonite in the primary. Bentonite is a negative charge--proteins are a positive charge--so the particulate matter is attracted to the bentonite, agglutinates and falls out as sediment. Bentonite prevents protein haze and helps a whole lot in clarification. It also heat stabilizes the wine so that when you refrigerate the wine, you don't get protein fallout which makes the wine cloudy or makes it drop sediment. We use bentonite in all our ferments because we make many fruit wines every year and use no water dilution. The resulting wine is very dense and difficult to clear. The bentonite helps a whole lot. You said the sediment would go back into solution when you moved it---not only can this be due to lack of enzymes, but also because of lack of bulk aging.

Another reason you're having sediment problems is because you aren't bulk aging these wines. So many winemakers don't understand all the magic that happens when you bulk age. And when you DON'T bulk age, sediment will always be a problem in your bottles. Components that form hazes,precipitates, and sediment denature over time, form colloides and then large agglutinated complexes. If sufficient time is allowed for these polymerization and agglutination reactions to occur, the particulate matter that forms can then be removed thru racking. This removes the unstable components from the wine and the wine will then be stabilized. Therefore, aging can be thought of as achieving wine stability.

Aging can also eliminate unwanted volatile esters, which aren't stable components. Many of these are microbial in origin and not considered to be varietal characteristics. Aging stabilizes tannins, pigments and color. And any bitter or astringent compounds may also form larger complexes and drop out.

And sufficient time is usually not anything less than a year---unless the wine is specifically made for early drinking. But all other wines should be bulk aged at least 1 year. We rarely bottle anything even at the 1 year mark. Most are aged for 1 1/2 years, at the earliest.

So I think your problems are linked to maybe not using pectic enzyme--or enough of it--bentonite to fight protein haze, but most definitely not enough time in bulk aging. Sanitizing IS important. But it's not the answer to everything. When you tasted the wine and it tasted OK--you should not have dumped it. If it had some kind of bacterial problem, it would NOT have tasted OK. What a shame. But then, we live and learn. I know it's tough for new winemakers because you just don't have enough experience to make a good judgement call. Any time you have doubts or questions---come here before you throw anything away!!!

There are many other things I could teach you, but I don't want to overwhelm you with too much. More questions? Just fire away!

 

[Fog]

Turock,
Thanks for that great info. I was using Pectic Enzyme, but I think it was just generic stuff from the local HBS. I will look for the stuff you suggested and get some of that. I do have some Bentinite at home so I will run my Peach Mango through that and also my Peach Chardonnay, as well as some of the others that are bulk aging. Yes I admit I have been impatient with the wine because it has been so good. I used to think store bought wine was ok, I was a beer drinker, then found out I had a Gluten intolerance so I switched to wine. Once I started with making my own the taste and appreciation was much better, now I really enjoy wines. I have made about 10 kits and have been trying any and all fruit I can get ahold of to see what is good...

I finally captured a corner in the basement for my wine building/aging, so now I can let things age longer. I have a question tho, when bulk aging I have read differnet things on when to rack the wine. Some are every other month some are every 3-4 months. So how long do I let the wine sit in a carboy during the bulk aging stage before I rack it? And how often should I add K-meta when doing that. The fifty Gallons that are in process now some have been aging since October and I have been racking every 1-2 months and adding K-meta every other racking.

Thanks again for the help
Rob

 

[Turock]

Well, you should only rack when it's needed. Every time you remove the airlock---every time you rack-- you are getting oxygen exposure. After the first racking--that is when you get the gross lees off the wine after the ferment--after that you should let the wine sit and when/if you get another good 1/2 inch or more of lees, go ahead and rack that off. One or two rackings will do it unless you've used bentonite in the primary--then you might need 1 or 2 more rackings. But there is no special time to rack--it's when it's needed ONLY. And you should allow the light dusting of lees to remain on the wine--don't try to get the carboy completely clear. When you are finished with bulk aging and ready to bottle, THEN rack the wine into a clean and sanitized carboy, leaving that dusting of lees behind. It's always wise to not manipulate young wines more than needed. They should spend most of the time remaining undisturbed and not going thru excessive rackings and degassing procedures.

Oh, that was another thing I wanted to say. You should never bottle before the 1 year mark to be sure all the CO2 has come off the wine. And if you are sweetening these wines before bottling, you have to use sorbate and sorbate should never be used on cloudy wine. It gets over whelmed by too many yeast cells and can't prevent refermentation. So this is another reason for bulk aging--to get as many yeast cells off the wine as possible so the sorbate works correctly.

As we all know, you should be testing your wines for free SO2. But if you can't afford a good SO2 tester, then you can add 1/8 tsp of meta every 3 or 4 months. SO2 dose is dependant on the PH of the wine. So this is another reason you should always PH test and adjust your musts as needed so that you know how much to dose the wine. But not knowing PH, then you should shoot for about 50 PPM of free SO2--some of the sulfite gets bound up, and only that which remains unbound--or free--protects the wine.

Back to the pectic enzyme---this is one addition to wine that you can't over-dose. So on very dense fruits, you can double the dose. This will often help with clarification.

So now you are in the secondary and wanting to clear the wine you have. You can always start by hitting it with some pectic enzyme--very often THIS will clear it and you'll find no need for other fining agents. If you have protein haze, you can use bentonite in the secondary. However, proteins have a stronger positive charge with lower PH and you can use a smaller dose of bentonite for those. But a mid-level generic bentonite dose is 9 grams(1 1/2 tsp) in 3/4 cup hot water for 5 gallons. Also, this will work better if the wine is warmer. So move it to the warmest area of your house--or wait until summer--to use the bentonite. Try the pectic enzyme first. tho--see if that doesn't clear it up. That's always a good FIRST step to take.

Peach--mango--- very good wines to use bentonite in the primary. Our peach turned out SO clear and nice with it. Even under refrigeration, it remains as clear as water.

 

[Fog]

Ok just a couple more questions on this topic:
1. Peach Mango, from the pictures, it's bottled, should I put it back into a carboy and hit it with some Pectic Enzyme and/or Bentonite to try to get the Protien Haze gone? And what would be the preffered method of doing that? Dump into a primary and rack to carboy? or I have a funnel with some tubing to reach the bottom of the carboy and I could pour directly into that?
2. I have a Pear wine in a 1 gallon that I had just used Sparkoloid on a couple of weeks ago and it's still settling somewhat how should I handle that one?

Thanks again for all the help, I feel much better about the stuff I have going now, and a MUCH clearer understanding going forward.

 

[GreginND]

Thanks again for all the help, I feel much better about the stuff I have going now, and a MUCH clearer understanding going forward.

So, you are coming out of the fog?

Actually, with the wine that is already bottled, the protein haze doesn't really hurt anything other than being cosmetically unappealing. If it's just a little, I'd leave it in the bottle and decant it when you open it for drinking. Perhaps you could clarify it a little bit by straining through a coffee filter when you drink it. Or, just drink it if it tastes ok and you don't mind the haze.

For the pear wine, you can do bentonite fining later. I would probably wait until I was ready to rack off the sparkaloid and then treat it with bentonite after that.

 

[Fog]

So, you are coming out of the fog?

So that is part of the reason for that name... As a kid my Dad, who had a pilots license used to ask us kids if we were "Fog Fliers" When we didn't catch on to things right away... So yeah I guess the fog is thining...

 

[Turock]

Yeah--I agree with Greg. Protein haze isn't pretty, but it won't hurt anything. I think that now that you know more about this and how to prevent it, I would take better steps on your next ferment and just accept the hazy wine as it is. As always, if you need some hand holding during the ferment to be sure everything goes well--well, we can do that too. Just ask. In the mean time, if you think you'll stay with this hobby, you might think about getting a PH meter. It's very important on fruit wines because many times you need to adjust the PH. And as I said above, it's very important to know PH so that you know how much free SO2 your wines should have.

It just seems to be such a waste of corks to uncork the wine with the protein haze.

I agree with Greg on the pear. Get the Sparkaloid off it first. This is one wine you will always want to use bentonite in the primary. Pear--peach too-- are just so tough to clear, many times.

Are you interested in any books on winemaking? If so, go look at the books on www.morewine.com They have some good beginners books there and they also have a lot of free info in their MoreManuals section. I think they have a chart there for how much free SO2 wines need for their PH levels.

I'm glad I could help you. Anytime you need anything, we're all here for more help so just ask us.