Port without fortifying with distilled alcohol

[StevenD55]

Hello,

I have a 150 pounds or so of Valiant grapes that have been in the freezer for a couple of months because I didn't have time or any more fermenters to deal with them in the fall. These were all stemmed by hand, which was tedious. We usually juice these, but I think we're set on the amount of juice we have.

So, I'm thinking of trying to make some into a port wine by fractional freezing to concentrate the juices and sugar since it's already been frozen for awhile and fermenting to as high as I can push the yeast but retain some natural sweetness. I'd like to use a yeast that can take it beyond 14% though. I see where some yeasts will go to 17 and 18% like champagne yeast and a few others. This will be a red wine. So, I don't want to choose the incorrect yeast. Some that can survive the higher ranges I see are for fruit or white wines.

Anyway, I'd sure be interested in advice and recommendations if anyone has any, even if it's to the tune of telling me I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks,

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

EC1118 or Premier Cuvee should both do the ferment well with enough extra nutrients, you are really making a high strength dessert wine vs a real port (though this is what a lot of people call port style on here). The yeast booklets give a guide to increased nutrients for doing high gravity musts. A little ELDME can go a long way in adding some extra body though I dont think many of the grape people have experimented much with this. A little oak if you like, or a lot if you really like. Are you going to press the partially thawed grapes and do an ice wine kind of technique? WVMJ

 

[StevenD55]

EC1118 or Premier Cuvee should both do the ferment well with enough extra nutrients, you are really making a high strength dessert wine vs a real port (though this is what a lot of people call port style on here). The yeast booklets give a guide to increased nutrients for doing high gravity musts. A little ELDME can go a long way in adding some extra body though I dont think many of the grape people have experimented much with this. A little oak if you like, or a lot if you really like. Are you going to press the partially thawed grapes and do an ice wine kind of technique? WVMJ

Yes. I think I will have to. Or maybe I will steam them and then press. That will likely add more color although Valiant doesn't need much motivation for that. I have EC-1118. So maybe I will give that a try.

As to the dessert wine comment....I suffer from a sweet tooth which is why I want to try this.

Thanks for the input.

 

[salcoco]

you might want to try the stepped sugar method. start sg at about 1100. when it reaches 1010 add sugar syrup to 1020 continue until drop in sg no longer occurs. with careful feeding and nutrient might get to 20%

 

[GaDawg]

If it is fermented without distilled alcohol is it port?

 

[StevenD55]

If it is fermented without distilled alcohol is it port?

That was sort of discussed in one of the posts above as well.

 

[StevenD55]

A little ELDME can go a long way in adding some extra body though I dont think many of the grape people have experimented much with this. WVMJ

ELDME... What sort of ratio do you think might be appropriate for this application?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Steam and then press? You might want to take advantage of having them frozen, let thaw a little bit and press to concentrate the juice like in ice wine, steaming just seems like not such a good way to do this if your aim is a sweet heavy dessert wine. For the ELDME, opinions vary, a pound in 5 gallons might be enough for some, several pounds for other tastes, just make sure its extra light so it doesnt add a beer malt taste. You cant go wrong also adding some dried elderberries for a little tannin and color, like 2-4 oz/gal and some nice oak. WVMJ

 

[StevenD55]

Steam and then press? You might want to take advantage of having them frozen, let thaw a little bit and press to concentrate the juice like in ice wine, steaming just seems like not such a good way to do this if your aim is a sweet heavy dessert wine. For the ELDME, opinions vary, a pound in 5 gallons might be enough for some, several pounds for other tastes, just make sure its extra light so it doesnt add a beer malt taste. You cant go wrong also adding some dried elderberries for a little tannin and color, like 2-4 oz/gal and some nice oak. WVMJ

You are probably right....I wanted to be sure to break the skins on these tough little grapes. I've had some go completely through fermentation and still look like the skin never broke at all. I was figuring I might have to fractional freeze juice a couple of times though to really concentrate it to the SG I'm hoping to get. I'm trying to avoid adding a ton of sugar for this little experiment. It just depends on how difficult it becomes to concentrate it I guess.

Color won't be a problem with the Valiant grapes. Some recommend to limit skin contact with Valiant to keep it from turning too dark. I'm not sure why exactly. Yes on tannin most likely. I've never tried using elderberry for that.

Thanks for the input on the ELDME and oak.

Regards,