Quantcast

Orange Bochet recipe-please comment

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Mazaruni

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
57
Reaction score
3
Hi there,

I made this recipe from several sources. I've only made a few meads so far, which were pretty good but not awesome. Any comments on my recipe and plan?

Thanks!

Orange Bouchet Test Recipe

Goal: Start with 2 gallons to end up at least 1 gallon, 12 % ABV, ferment dry but backsweeten slightly.

SG 1.1

Recipe:

4 lb clover honey

1.2 lb orange blossom honey

Water to bring to 2 gallons

Go-ferm: 6.25 g

Fermaid O: 3.4 g

Fermaid K: 3.8 g

DAP 2.6 g

Yeast: Lalvin D47

2 handfuls golden raisins, washed to remove sulfites

2 Oranges, just flesh and grated peels (no pith)


Process:

Boil clover honey in slow cooker to caramelize.

Combine with fresh orange blossom honey.

Top to 2 gallons water, adjust to SG 1.1

Aerate 15 minutes

Hydrate Go-Ferm and yeast together and pitch

Degas twice daily

24 hours after pitch, add 1.7 g Fermaid O

48 hours after pitch, add 1.7 g Fermaid O

72 hours after pitch, add 1.9 g Fermaid K abd 1.3g DAP

Around G=1.07, add 1.9 g Fermaid K abd 1.3g DAP

Rack and clear until FG = 1.000

To backsweeten, add 0.5 t potassium sorbate per gallon. Make F-pack of orange blossom honey, OJ and a little more grated orange rind and let clear again.



Sources:

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/boiling-up-a-bochet.html

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/5-tips-making-better-mead/

http://www.meadmakr.com/batch-buildr/
 

tradowsk

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
236
Reaction score
84
I'm not an expert mead marker by any stretch, but do you really need FermO, FermK, and DAP?

It seems most people (myself included) use TOSNA for nutrient additions, which only uses GoFerm and FermO. I wonder if you would be adding too many nutrients that wouldn't get used and may affect your flavor profile. Besides, isn't FermO and improved version of FermK with organic nitrogen sources?

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chime in and verify
 

BernardSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
3,366
Reaction score
1,500
Location
Saratoga Springs
Just remember, It takes about 2 years for mead to come around to drinkable.
Sorry, Donatelo but the idea that a mead needs years of aging to become drinkable is a hoary myth that today is mostly offered by people whose exposure to mead has been poor or their ability to make mead is non existent. It should take only a few weeks of aging for a well-made mead to be drinkable. In the same way that a wine kit can be bottled and enjoyed in a couple of months so too can a mead and any mead that takes more than that to be drinkable (not necessarily prize winningly outstanding but pleasurably drinkable) is in fact full of faults that point to stressed yeast, and /or an attempt to make the mead rocket fuel rather than a beverage to be savored

I routinely make t'ej (mead to an Ethiopian recipe) and that is quite delicious in 5 or 6 weeks. And while t'ej, like soft cheese is meant to be enjoyed without aging, of course some meads will reach new heights of flavor after a year or more of maturation but that is not the same thing as being "undrinkable" for years any more than a cheddar cheese cannot be eaten before 12 months have passed. You can enjoy hard cheese the day it is turned out of the press and like a young mead it just won't have the complexity of flavor aging provides. But each sip should demand that it be followed by another.
 

Mazaruni

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
57
Reaction score
3
Thanks for the comments, tradowsk. I was using the meadmkr website...but maybe fewer nutrients...I'll read up on it more.
 

Mazaruni

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
57
Reaction score
3
Interesting conversation! Excited to hear about Ethiopian mead.
 

tradowsk

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
236
Reaction score
84
@Mazaruni keep us updated on your progress! I always wanted to make a bochet, but never took the leap. So if this turns out alright I may have to steal the recipe haha
 

Donatelo

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
337
Reaction score
100
Location
Ada, Oklahoma
Sorry to say that my attempts at mead has not been so. I have 4 bottles of "cyser" and 4 bottles of "Joe's Ancient Mead" that are rather harsh as of January this year, Put them up last August. Hoping they will soften by June or so.
 

tradowsk

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
236
Reaction score
84
Hey @Mazaruni how long did you boil the honey to caramelize it? I've seen a bunch of different times online, and I was curious how long you went.

I ask because cooking it too long will create unfermentable sugars, and I've seen people cook it from 20min to over 2hrs
 

BernardSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
3,366
Reaction score
1,500
Location
Saratoga Springs
For bochet, the amount of time I think is not as critical as the temperature of the honey. You want the temperature to reach about 325F to caramelize the sucrose and you don't want to scorch the honey so you need to find a way to achieve that sweet spot without burning the bottom. When it hits 325F monitor it for the change in color. You want it darker than raw honey but you do not want to add burnt honey to your mead. That's like eating blackened toast. My preferred methods are either in the oven or using a slow cooker (but you need to remember that when you heat honey to this temperature it can treble or quadruple in volume very easily) - AND it is sticky and hot - and THAT makes it very dangerous. Protect your skin.
 

Mazaruni

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
57
Reaction score
3
Hi tradowsk,
I boiled a portion of the honey--clover honey--for about 20 minutes. It started to darken pretty fast around that point. It had a light to medium brown color, and a really delicious cinnamon flavor. I was really surprised how the cinnamon flavor appeared out of nowhere. I kind of wish I'd boiled it a little longer because the caramel flavor was there, but I'd like it stronger. I think at the end, I'll make a little F-Pack with boiled honey, unboiled orange blossom honey, and some orange juice or a little grated peel.

I was thinking of making this F-Pack as a vodka infusion with boiled and plain honey, and then dilute it to 12% with orange juice. So far, so good, but I'd like to to have more caramel flavor.
 

tradowsk

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
236
Reaction score
84
@Mazaruni thanks for the update! So next time you would go 30min? Or longer?

Also, how did the addition of the orange blossom honey in primary come through? Can you taste it or did it get covered up by the cinnamon/caramel flavors?
 

Mazaruni

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
57
Reaction score
3
HI there, next time I would go to 25, but watch it closely, because I think it changes really fast, and also, usually stuff continues to cook a little after you remove it from heat. The caramel flavor was quite light once it was dissoved in water. I added orange flesh and zest, so this is a little more prominent. I am hoping an F Pack in the end will make both caramel and orange a little stronger.
 

BernardSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
3,366
Reaction score
1,500
Location
Saratoga Springs
Not an expert on bochet but I do think the secret is not how long you cook the honey but at what temperature you cook it. Caramelization of fructose (about 38% of honey) occurs at 230 F but to caramelize the glucose in honey (about 31%) the temperature of the honey needs to be about 320 F. But note that most cooking where you caramelize sugars in say onions and other vegetables is done at 350F Honey has a great deal of mass so hitting 350 F (or 320 F) may take a fair amount of heat energy (time) but the critical factor is not time, it's temperature and it's not "ambient temperature" but the temperature of the honey and that is why you can caramelize honey in a crockpot. It can take hours but you won't burn the honey by creating a "hot spot"
 
Top