Operating Out of More than One area...

[bkisel]

For the 3+ years I've been making wine I've been doing every process up to bulk aging in my kitchen/dining area. I'll rack for bulk aging and carry the carboy down to thew basement for bulk aging, bottling and bottle aging. This has been true both at my old home in CT and now my new home in PA.

Several negatives I can think of doing it as I am is that... I take up a corner of the kitchen, maybe every other month or more, for several weeks. Visitors get to see the clutter of the "sausage" being made. I risk some spillage and splashing of wine in a living area of the home. A big risk comes when a full carboy is carried from the kitchen down the stairs into the basement. [I'm in my 72nd year and in good shape but still don't take pleasure in the task.]

The negatives of not doing the fermentation, etc. in the basement is not having ready access to a sink and drain and more temperature control issues. My basement's ambient temperature runs up to about 66F in the summer and it has been as low as 58F in the winter. The kitchen/dinning area run about 10F warmer.

I do have a brew belt and an accurate long probe thermometer; a good temperature for primary fermentation can be monitored and maintained in the basement but once I move to secondary, with what I have now, I'd be flying blind with regards secondary, stabilization, clearing and degassing temperatures.

Anyone else dealing with the issue of operating out of more than one area of the house? Is it something you've just learned to accept or have you been thinking of ways to consolidate your wine making operations into one area?

 

[mwulf67]

For the 3+ years I've been making wine I've been doing every process up to bulk aging in my kitchen/dining area. I'll rack for bulk aging and carry the carboy down to thew basement for bulk aging, bottling and bottle aging. This has been true both at my old home in CT and now my new home in PA.

Several negatives I can think of doing it as I am is that... I take up a corner of the kitchen, maybe every other month or more, for several weeks. Visitors get to see the clutter of the "sausage" being made. I risk some spillage and splashing of wine in a living area of the home. A big risk comes when a full carboy is carried from the kitchen down the stairs into the basement. [I'm in my 72nd year and in good shape but still don't take pleasure in the task.]

The negatives of not doing the fermentation, etc. in the basement is not having ready access to a sink and drain and more temperature control issues. My basement's ambient temperature runs up to about 66F in the summer and it has been as low as 58F in the winter. The kitchen/dinning area run about 10F warmer.

I do have a brew belt and an accurate long probe thermometer; a good temperature for primary fermentation can be monitored and maintained in the basement but once I move to secondary, with what I have now, I'd be flying blind with regards secondary, stabilization, clearing and degassing temperatures.

Anyone else dealing with the issue of operating out of more than one area of the house? Is it something you've just learned to accept or have you been thinking of ways to consolidate your wine making operations into one area?

I think your biggest hindrance the lack of water source and drain…I think the temperature issue isn’t that bad and can be mediated by brew belts, space heaters, acceptance, etc…

I recent put in a utility sink in my basement wine area and it didn’t require too much or any actual plumbing…it drains into the existing sump pump basin, and my water source (cold only) is the existing garden hose faucet off the main line (an adapter was required as well)…just that has made a world of difference in consolidate my operation and far less up and down steps…the whole step-up probably cost less than medium end wine kit…not perfect, and well, not to code… but it works for me now…

 

[AZMDTed]

Bill,

I feel your concern. In my old house I'd ferment upstairs, clean up on the main level in the kitchen, and age in the basement. Carrying a carboy up and down the stairs wasn't fun.

I moved last year to another house and am fortunate enough to have a walk out basement to my garage. I put a large Stainless Steel sink in the garage and do all my cleaning there now. The basement is still too cold for me (about 62-65 degrees) from November to May to ferment at a temp I'd prefer. To get around that I bought two large plastic tubs at Lowes and two 100w aquarium heaters. Both the primary bucket and carboys fit in the tub with about 3 inches of space all the way around between them and the walls of the tub. I put about 5 inches of water in the tubs and then the carboy or bucket which raises the water level more (keep it below the level of the wine though). I then add the heaters to the tub and set the temp to stay at 72-75. To save energy I wrap them up in a sleeping bag which traps in a lot of the heat. This has been very effective and efficient for me. The water both heats up the must in the bucket or carboy and keeps the wine from getting too hot during fermentation. No more lugging the primary or carboys up and down stairs. In the summertime if the room gets too warm I just add a couple frozen water bottles in the morning and the water in the tubs cool down.

That and the AllinOne and there's no more need to lift carboys other than the 16 inches or so to get them into the water bath.

Good luck.

 

[ceeaton]

Bill,

I do exactly what you do. Ferment up in the kitchen corner, move downstairs to age, move back upstairs to degass. I'm only 53 and worry I'm going to mishandle a carboy some day and boom, big mess. I have a few pet type carboys which are much lighter, and less likely to slip out of my hands, but then I have to move to a six gallon glass one to degass with my brake bleeder kit.

Recently I had twisted my knee and couldn't move a carboy either up or down the staircase, so I had to rely on my 17 yr old son to move it (he lifts weights and is taller than I am, so it's just a warmup for him). I guess you could lure in one of the local kids and make him an indentured servent, just feed him and clean up after him if he makes a mess.

Any joking aside I'll be curious what type of replies (ideas) come out of this thread, but at some point I think I'm going to have to add a utility sink in the basement with a small pump into the sewer line. Just a bit short of cash right now.

 

[bkisel]

Bill, ...

Recently I had twisted my knee and couldn't move a carboy either up or down the staircase, so I had to rely on my 17 yr old son to move it (he lifts weights and is taller than I am, so it's just a warmup for him) ...

Yeah, I'm coming off some knee pain that started maybe three weeks ago. Don't know what caused it but it did flare up after doing some garage attic insulation - maybe at my age just the crawling around and balanced walking on 2x4s could have caused the problem?

 

[JohnT]

Sounds like the only thing you need is a sink in your basement. I do not think that this would be very expensive to put in...

 

[BernardSmith]

Sounds like the only thing you need is a sink in your basement. I do not think that this would be very expensive to put in...

It can be quite expensive... I wanted to have a sink put in my basement and although we have a washing machine hooked to a pipe that drains with no problem my local plumber explained that given the geography of the basement it would cost about $1000 to put in the plumbing required for a utility sink which would need some kind of pump to allow the water to drain into the same pipe.

As for lugging around glass or plastic carboys one possible solution might be to keep the carboys in milk cartons. That means that you are using two hands to lift the carton which is designed to be gripped by both hands whereas the carboy's shape makes gripping awkward.. Still, lifting a 50 lb milk carton can put a great deal of pressure on your back. Perhaps that's why I tend to make smaller batches of wine

 

[bkisel]

It can be quite expensive... I wanted to have a sink put in my basement and although we have a washing machine hooked to a pipe that drains with no problem my local plumber explained that given the geography of the basement it would cost about $1000 to put in the plumbing required for a utility sink which would need some kind of pump to allow the water to drain into the same pipe.

As for lugging around glass or plastic carboys one possible solution might be to keep the carboys in milk cartons. That means that you are using two hands to lift the carton which is designed to be gripped by both hands whereas the carboy's shape makes gripping awkward.. Still, lifting a 50 lb milk carton can put a great deal of pressure on your back. Perhaps that's why I tend to make smaller batches of wine

I think you're onto something... I make 6 gallon batches so I could maybe rack half, make two trips down to the basement with ~3 gallons each and then finish racking. The biggest hassle would be drips from the auto siphon. I just might try it with my next batch.

Oops! Just realized there'd be a lot of sloshing around of the sediment with my idea. I'd need to rack half to one vessel and half to another upstairs and then re-rack half again down in the basement.

 

[dcbrown73]

I just started and I'm already having that issue. I store the wine in a small broom closet, but it will only fit a single carboy/fermentation bucket.

I have a large closet in my office bedroom, but it has carpet in there and I'm uncomfortable putting it in there until I have more trust it in. (maybe a large tub I can sit the carboy in at some point in case it runs over or something.)

I sold my house last July. I think I'm stuck with this until I buy a new house in the future.

 

[ceeaton]

I just started and I'm already having that issue. I store the wine in a small broom closet, but it will only fit a single carboy/fermentation bucket.

I have a large closet in my office bedroom, but it has carpet in there and I'm uncomfortable putting it in there until I have more trust it in. (maybe a large tub I can sit the carboy in at some point in case it runs over or something.)

I sold my house last July. I think I'm stuck with this until I buy a new house in the future.

Most people buy a house depending on the schools and neighbors or maybe even the landscaping. Winemakers don't care what the house color is, but what is the temperature range of the basement, and is there an extra bedroom that could be converted into a fermentation room!

 

[ceeaton]

I think you're onto something... I make 6 gallon batches so I could maybe rack half, make two trips down to the basement with ~3 gallons each and then finish racking. The biggest hassle would be drips from the auto siphon. I just might try it with my next batch.

Oops! Just realized there'd be a lot of sloshing around of the sediment with my idea. I'd need to rack half to one vessel and half to another upstairs and then re-rack half again down in the basement.

Bill, I've got it!

My Grandma used to live in town (Wellsboro) and she had one of those inclinators, it had a seat and a place for your feet and followed a track up the stairwell (you can imagine how much use it got with four grandkids visiting). It could be modified to go up and down your basement stairs with enough room for a carboy where your feet go. Tada, problem solved!

 

[dcbrown73]

Most people buy a house depending on the schools and neighbors or maybe even the landscaping. Winemakers don't care what the house color is, but what is the temperature range of the basement, and is there an extra bedroom that could be converted into a fermentation room!

I have three requirements.

1. Dark skies. (I'm an Astronomer / Astrophotographer)
2. High Speed Internet (I'm an IT guy)
3. Place to store and make lots of wine. (I love the stuff!)

 

[Runningwolf]

I have three requirements.

1. Dark skies. (I'm an Astronomer / Astrophotographer)
2. High Speed Internet (I'm an IT guy)
3. Place to store and make lots of wine. (I love the stuff!)

I like the way you think!

 

[Tnuscan]

It can be quite expensive... I wanted to have a sink put in my basement and although we have a washing machine hooked to a pipe that drains with no problem my local plumber explained that given the geography of the basement it would cost about $1000 to put in the plumbing required for a utility sink which would need some kind of pump to allow the water to drain into the same pipe.

As for lugging around glass or plastic carboys one possible solution might be to keep the carboys in milk cartons. That means that you are using two hands to lift the carton which is designed to be gripped by both hands whereas the carboy's shape makes gripping awkward.. Still, lifting a 50 lb milk carton can put a great deal of pressure on your back. Perhaps that's why I tend to make smaller batches of wine

Let's say you put your sink in the basement, put a 5 gal bucket under the sink. At the bottom of the bucket drop a submersible bilge pump. I bought a big one at home supply for under 100.00 that was automatic(for a different project). Run a hose from pump to washing machine drain. Jump off of hot and cold water supply from washing machine to sink. Shop smart and you'll do it all for 300 or less.

 

[Tnuscan]

Yeah, I'm coming off some knee pain that started maybe three weeks ago. Don't know what caused it but it did flare up after doing some garage attic insulation - maybe at my age just the crawling around and balanced walking on 2x4s could have caused the problem?

Just for fun lets say under the kitchen sink , beside the water supply you drilled a hole put a 3/4 pipe fixed stationary glue a threaded fitting on top with a threaded cap, same thing under the floor joist in the basement( just so it can be sealed off when not needed. At racking time slide a long 1/2 inch hose from carboy upstairs through the 3/4 pipe down into basement into carboy, siphon and let gravity do your work. Think about it.

 

[bkisel]

Just for fun lets say under the kitchen sink , beside the water supply you drilled a hole put a 3/4 pipe fixed stationary glue a threaded fitting on top with a threaded cap, same thing under the floor joist in the basement( just so it can be sealed off when not needed. At racking time slide a long 1/2 inch hose from carboy upstairs through the 3/4 pipe down into basement into carboy, siphon and let gravity do your work. Think about it.

Actually that'd work.

On a more practical note maybe a small hand truck? Would have to find one with big tires that'd handle the basement steps.

 

[Tnuscan]

Actually that'd work.

On a more practical note maybe a small hand truck? Would have to find one with big tires that'd handle the basement steps.

I just moved the washer and dryer from basement to first floor. Will be setting up this area for wine making. Those carboys are a job carrying up and down, like you said. 30 years is enough for me. But we're gonna miss that exercise.

 

[PhilDarby]

I work in more than one area, I do the cookery side (ie) cleaning and making the must in the kitchen area, I have 2 fermenting areas, one is inside the wardrobe in my bedroom and the other is in a cupboard which ive set aside for the purpose, once ive added the yeast I carry the fermenting vessel to the area I intend to brew it in, I tend to use 5 gallon fermenters for big batches and one gallon ones for smaller batches.

Due to limited space I tend to find I also blend a lot as well, to free up room, to create fresh wine making space.

I also live in a one bedroomed flat and don't need to contemplate stairs or have to carry it very far, I also have a few areas set aside for aging, but, basically my flat is too small to store much wine for long periods of time so, mostly my wine is drunk within a few months or blended with newer stuff to create space, I do have an area which can hold about 16 bottles for longer term storage, but, have to work with the available space the best I can.

In your position if you can afford it I would be very tempted to get a sink installed in the basement and work purely from there, maybe use your brew belt when the temperature is coldish.

@bkisel in all fairness ive always enjoyed making wine but, I make it partly due to cost, my maximum capacity for storage is probably about 12 gallons, without turning my flat into a brewery, that's something I don't intend to do, its basically more than enough storage to ensure I can have a bottle close to hand when needed ;-)

 

[bkisel]

I work in more than one area, I do the cookery side (ie) cleaning and making the must in the kitchen area, I have 2 fermenting areas, one is inside the wardrobe in my bedroom and the other is in a cupboard which ive set aside for the purpose, once ive added the yeast I carry the fermenting vessel to the area I intend to brew it in, I tend to use 5 gallon fermenters for big batches and one gallon ones for smaller batches.

Due to limited space I tend to find I also blend a lot as well, to free up room, to create fresh wine making space.

I also live in a one bedroomed flat and don't need to contemplate stairs or have to carry it very far, I also have a few areas set aside for aging, but, basically my flat is too small to store much wine for long periods of time so, mostly my wine is drunk within a few months or blended with newer stuff to create space, I do have an area which can hold about 16 bottles for longer term storage, but, have to work with the available space the best I can.

In your position if you can afford it I would be very tempted to get a sink installed in the basement and work purely from there, maybe use your brew belt when the temperature is coldish.

Thanks for sharing...

Wow, you're certainly dedicated to this hobby. I lived in apartments the first 32 years of my life and can appreciate how difficult it would be, because of such limited space, for me to pursue wine making on the level/volume I currently enjoy. I need to focus more on the positives associated with my home wine making situation then the few negatives. I've no lack of space for storage of equipment, bulk aging and bottle storage.

 

[Dhaynes]

Been there, done that, got the Tshirt. Until we converted our garage into our winery. We were lucky that we had a 1/2 bath about 15 feet away that we could tie into for water and drainage so we put in a utility sink. Most expensive thing we did was to put in a vent hood with a high CFM exhaust fan above the sink to get rid of the Kmeta fumes. The vent hood was expensive and required larger rectangular ductwork to handle the air flow. Had to open up the ceiling to run the ductwork to an outside wall. Probably spent 4x as much on the vent hood as we did the sink but was all worth it!