Ok here we go... 2017 first crush

Discussion in 'Wine Making from Grapes' started by Smok1, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Ok so i got my first grape shipment. The reisling we ordered didnt happen, not why. Anyway i was compensated with merlot instead and i cant say im disapointed. So, i have in the refrigerators 3 lugs of Syrah, and 3 lugs of Merlot. I only bought one batch of MLF bacteria but it says its good to 66gallons so i assume i can split it between the batches. Yeast will be rc212 hydrated with goferm and fermaidk as the nutrient. To start i spent the day cleaning the wine room, sanitizing all surfaces.

    So Day1.
    Step1:Wash/rinse all the grapes first?
    Step2: run grapes through crusher removing the stems into my fermenter.
    Step 3: add pectic enzyme.
    Step 4: kmeta to 30-50ppm (on the grape crates its stamped "sulphite has been added for fungicide"
    Step5: take juice sample and take ph/ta/brix
    Step6: adjust ph/ta/brix? Or is this done tomorrow after the pectic enzymes have a chance to do some work?
     
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  2. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    Sounds like you're off to good start.

    1: I don't wash grapes, not sure what others do, but I get rid of badly raisined, unripe and moldy grapes.
    2: yes
    3: yes
    4: yes
    5: yes
    6:I wouldn't adjust anything the first 24 hours, take readings before you pitch yeast and then maybe adjust.
     
  3. Boatboy24

    Boatboy24 No longer a newbie, but still clueless.

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    Agree with @pgentile .

    Let the crushed/destemmed must sit for 12-24 hours, then remeasure brix and acid and adjust if necessary before pitching yeast.
     
  4. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    So, first update, first batch we did was the syrah, berries were nice, kinda squished into the crates, i thought the crusher would destem and we would pick the stems out of the crush, not so good, so new plan, got to the merlot, destemmed first, then crushed. The merlot berries were much nicer than the syrah berries. Syrah was a mess, berries all over the floor, merlot went much smoother... learning curves, i hope that a few stems left in the syrah wont hurt it.
     

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  5. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    1st all grape-new equipment- yea I'd say so. Everything I do still has learning curves.
    The crusher you bought has lots of gaps between the teeth, instead of like, a ribbed roller looking thing that literally leaves maybe 1/16" of space. Makes destemming after doable -- but still not the easiest thing.
    @Pgentile has a good move. Crush em with the stems. But instead of fishing them out right away, does it over the course of the next few day. As the grapes break down the stems become more clean and can be pulled out easily without negatively affecting the wine.
    I would never attempt all that inside the house tho. You'll be finding discarding grape skins around for months to come!
    And I have those same Pia grapes. What kind of info did you get on where they are from?
     
  6. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Ok so heres the first numbers.

    Syrah:
    Ph:4.1
    Ta: 0.5%
    Brix:24

    Merlot:
    Ph:3.9
    Ta:0.5%
    Brix:24

    Why is my ph so high? I just bought a new HM digital ph meter for $130, i recalibrated it at 4ph multiple times, it appears its working correctly. I tryed multiple different ways, pulled a sample, crushed in a jar with a muddle and strained, i put in a blender and blended it up, same results every time.

    Add tartaric acid to lower ph now until i get to 3.5?
     
  7. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    As @ajmassa5983 said I crush and then fish out stems for a few days at the beginning of AF. Leaving a few stems in throughout won't hurt anything in my short experience. But many people are more strict than I am and would advise get as many stems out as possible before fermentation. I do believe I read somewhere there is an acceptable percentage of stems to grapes in the must.
     
  8. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    What's the temp of the must right now? If you just crushed today I wouldn't adjust anything until readings are taken tomorrow. I've never had grapes come in that high in pH, your meter adjusts for temp? Others have and should be able to help better.
     
  9. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Crushed yesterday, temp is still a bit low 18C, but my ph meter adjusts for temp.
     
  10. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    Hmmm...in that case I'm inclined to lean towards trying to bring it down a bit to the 3.5-3.6 range. I have no experience with this to recomend dosage. Hopefully someone will chime in soon with advise.
     
  11. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    From More Wine:

    Looking at the pH and the TA: With a pH of 3.95 and a TA of .50, we want to lower thepH and raise the TA. Fortunately, we can do both by adding tartaric acid to the must. However, we must be careful not to overdo it. Must/juice is very complex. Each wine's unique make-up will cause it to respond to the adjustment in a unique way when making additions to the pH and TA. Two different wines with the same exact pH and TA will respond differently to an equivalent acid addition. Yes, the numbers are important, but ultimately, they only give you an idea of the boundaries you're working in, not absolute answers. A good analogy for this is thinking about driving at night: Not testing your pH is like driving in the dark with your headlights off- you have no idea which direction you're going. Testing not only illuminates the road ahead, but it also lights up the reflectors and paint lines. You can see where you are going along with the boundaries that promote safe driving. Furthermore, since it is quite difficult to know how any must or wine will react to an acid addition, we cannot express enough that it is always best to add a portion of the amount you think you need, then taste and test to be sure. It is very easy to overdo things. With a patient and measured approach, you'll be saved from having to fix an over-correction. Once you have tasted the partial addition, you can decide if the rest will be needed.

    https://morewinemaking.com/articles/complete_must_adjustment_pH_TA_Brix
     
  12. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    I posted the wrong part, but if you read through linked page, it gives you some direction.
     
  13. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Thanks pgentile, ill proceed with half dose of tatrtric acid and check ph again after my sons soccer game
     
  14. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Ok so each batch is about 12 gallons of must, i added 4 tbsp to the syrah and 3.5 tbsp to the merlot, both are sitting at

    Brix:24
    Ph:3.5/3.6 bouncing back and forth
    Ta: 0.7-0.75

    Tonight i plan to calculate fermaid k addition, ill do 1/2 dose now and 1/2 dose at about 1.030. Pitching rc212 rehydrated with goferm.

    Must on both is at 19.5 degrees C right now so i have a heat belt on it. I will pitch yeast when they reach 22C

    In 24 hours i will pitch MLF nutrients and bacteria.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
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  15. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    Looking good, keep us posted on progress.
     
  16. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    That was half the recommended dose of TA? Recently I had a low pH 3.15 batch that I added one dose of potassium-bicarb that was supposed to get me to about 3.3, but ended up at 3.6, while not bad, it shows that taking half the recommended dose steps is wise.
     
  17. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Yep, half the recommended dose seemed to get me where i wanted to be. I think i calculated out a full dose would have got me from 4.1 to 3.4, half the dose is what i used and it went from 4.1 to 3.6 so im gonna go with it.
     
  18. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    Pitched rc212 last night, bubbling away nicely on both this morning. I still have 12 full carboys aging in the back rack as you can see, im going to need to bottle a few to make some room for the new wines.
     

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  19. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    Nice setup. Looks like a vigorous start. Many here would recommend a towel over the brutes instead of the lids during primary.

    I faced the same issue when it was time to press, calculated what I needed and was short one 5gl carboy. Went and picked up one, racked a few aging wines that needed kmeta after 3 months, pressed the latest batches, racked another from secondary. When all was done this past week I had 3 empty carboys. Don't know what math I was using, but I should have no empties.

    But my math error just means I'm going run and get a few juice buckets in 30 minutes and get those empties filled in 10 days or so.
     
  20. Smok1

    Smok1 Senior Member

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    I ussually use towels, the lids are just sitting loose on there, ill switch over to towels as soon as it starts creating some gas. I have a few carboys ready to bottle but im still waiting for my AIO wine pump in the mail i want to try out bottling with it, im in canada and the shipping is insanely slow here, plus it sat in customs for a week. Hoping to get it begining of this week sometime so i can make some room in some carboys, if not ill be buying more but my rack only holds 12 carboys so ill have to make room on the shelf below.
     

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