Odd smell after secondary -- multiple batches

[Eric Heidt]

Hi -- I've now attempted 2 separate batches of Winexpert Eclipse. 1st is the Bourbon Barrel Blend and second is the Lodi Cab.

Both taste fine with the 1st batch developing well from a taste perspective (it was produced 3 months ago).

2nd batch is now ~2 months old.

Both have a distinct, odd smell that is just about the same for both batches. A friend and I both agree it is not "rotten eggs" as we know natural gas to smell ...but its definitely not enjoyable.

What am I doing wrong? Is it possible I am not moving from primary to secondary fast enough?

 

[Johnd]

Hi -- I've now attempted 2 separate batches of Winexpert Eclipse. 1st is the Bourbon Barrel Blend and second is the Lodi Cab.

Both taste fine with the 1st batch developing well from a taste perspective (it was produced 3 months ago).

2nd batch is now ~2 months old.

Both have a distinct, odd smell that is just about the same for both batches. A friend and I both agree it is not "rotten eggs" as we know natural gas to smell ...but its definitely not enjoyable.

What am I doing wrong? Is it possible I am not moving from primary to secondary fast enough?

Hard to tell without actually smelling the smell, but most fermentations have all kinds of odd funky little smells if you stick your nose into them. Once the wine is finished fermenting and racked a time or two, those smells fade, and there are still funky funny tastes you may encounter. As your wine gets a little time on it, all of that stuff fades into the background and disappears as the true character of the wine comes through. As far as developing a nose, kit wine aroma is generally on the lighter side, but a nice aroma will develop over time in the bottle, the longer they age, the better the nose seems to develop in my experience.

If you've followed the instructions on your kits, and haven't attempted extended maceration or any other deviations, and didn't have any fermentation issues, my bet would be that you are just experiencing typical new, green wine smells that will fade with time and patience.

 

[Eric Heidt]

Thanks, John. I've followed the instructions closely. I will go for a 3rd batch and be even more mindful to see if the smell is consistent.

It couldn't be related to the tap water (general Houston city tap water) that I am using to top up the kit juice, right?

 

[CK55]

Thanks, John. I've followed the instructions closely. I will go for a 3rd batch and be even more mindful to see if the smell is consistent.

It couldn't be related to the tap water (general Houston city tap water) that I am using to top up the kit juice, right?

It could be related to your water? is it treated with chlorine or something like that? Make sure it isnt, its best to use distilled water if you top up at all. Or a similar wine from your store it doesnt have to be expensive as long as it tastes good it would work best.

 

[Eric Heidt]

Hi CK - apologies, I mean to say the "top-up" prior to primary fermentation. The kit comes with ~4 gallons of juice and the instructions ask to add additional water to reach 6 gallons before adding yeast for primary. I am using tap water for this step.

Are you advising to use distilled water or completed wine instead? (I assume no and your suggestion is for top-ups after racking to achieve minimum surface area during aging -- but will let you advise)

 

[Johnd]

Hi CK - apologies, I mean to say the "top-up" prior to primary fermentation. The kit comes with ~4 gallons of juice and the instructions ask to add additional water to reach 6 gallons before adding yeast for primary. I am using tap water for this step.

Are you advising to use distilled water or completed wine instead? (I assume no and your suggestion is for top-ups after racking to achieve minimum surface area during aging -- but will let you advise)

Eric, best to avoid municipal water sources to add to your kit, and don’t use distilled water (reportedly devoid of some beneficial minerals) either. Just a nice spring water or the like will do just fine. As far as topping up your carboys, a similar wine would be more appropriate than distilled water in this case also, to avoid thinning the wine.

 

[Eric Heidt]

Understood!

I will take this approach and dial in all instructions. Will advise in a month or two if I've managed to recreate the "stink" again.

 

[Johnd]

Understood!

I will take this approach and dial in all instructions. Will advise in a month or two if I've managed to recreate the "stink" again.

Sounds like a plan. Most municipal water sources add things to the water to soften it, making it easier on their system, could be a little something there for sure. Keep us posted.

 

[CK55]

Understood!

I will take this approach and dial in all instructions. Will advise in a month or two if I've managed to recreate the "stink" again.

Distilled is recommended cause grape juice has enough minerals so that distilled won't harm you. Bit distilled is guaranteed not to have anything that can cause off flavors.

 

[Johnd]

Distilled is recommended cause grape juice has enough minerals so that distilled won't harm you. Bit distilled is guaranteed not to have anything that can cause off flavors.

Perhaps you should review this thread:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/water-to-use-in-wine-kits.67120/

When you say that it is "recommended", by whom? Below in an excerpt from WineExpert's instructions from their high end kit with skins:

"STEP 1 DAY 1 - PRIMARY FERMENTATION 1.1 Clean and sanitize equipment to be used. 1.2 Pour 1 L (4 cups) of hot tap water into bottom of the primary fermenter and stir in packet #2 Bentonite. Mix well. 1.3 Pour contents of the juice base bag into the primary fermenter. Rinse out bag with 500 mL (2 cups) of water and pour into fermenter. 1.4 Top primary fermenter up to 22.5 L (5 gallon) mark with good quality drinking water"

In red, you can see that they refer to both "tap water" and "good quality drinking water", but make no reference to distilled water.

 

[CK55]

Every person I have ever spoken to about winemaking from my Homebrew/wine shop owner who owns a winery as well. To my uncle, to a italian guy around here who has made wine for 25 years told me to use distilled. I have never had spring water recommended to me ever. So that's where I got it. If I'm wrong then I wouldn't know I've been told distilled.

 

[jgmann67]

Every person I have ever spoken to about winemaking from my Homebrew/wine shop owner who owns a winery as well. To my uncle, to a italian guy around here who has made wine for 25 years told me to use distilled. I have never had spring water recommended to me ever. So that's where I got it. If I'm wrong then I wouldn't know I've been told distilled.

I've seen multiple recommendations - everything from tap, to distilled and spring - on the site. Some areas of the country have high chlorine, iron or Sulphur... to me, none of those are good for wine. In my house, we have a well with hard water so we use a water softener. I'm adverse to the idea of using hard water or water with too much salt in my wine. That leaves me with distilled or spring. Can't say that spring water is better or worse than distilled water. There's just nothing distinctive about water that's got nothing else in it. So, I go with spring water that tastes good to me.

 

[Johnd]

Every person I have ever spoken to about winemaking from my Homebrew/wine shop owner who owns a winery as well. To my uncle, to a italian guy around here who has made wine for 25 years told me to use distilled. I have never had spring water recommended to me ever. So that's where I got it. If I'm wrong then I wouldn't know I've been told distilled.

Perhaps it's just the way that you state things so authoritatively. When you say "distilled is recommended" to someone who is asking a question, it makes it sound as though you have researched the topic and know what the overbearing proof on the topic is, though you've only made a handful of kit wines. The reality is that distilled is what has been recommended to you, but that's just not what you communicated.

I've been party to and observer of countless threads and comments on this site over the years about what the right water is to use in kits, the reality is, there is not one right answer. To my knowledge, not even the kit manufacturers have come out and said "Use xxxxxxx water when adding water to your kits". Many people use their municipal tap water or well water, some RO water, some spring water, as long as it tastes good.

 

[CK55]

Perhaps it's just the way that you state things so authoritatively. When you say "distilled is recommended" to someone who is asking a question, it makes it sound as though you have researched the topic and know what the overbearing proof on the topic is, though you've only made a handful of kit wines. The reality is that distilled is what has been recommended to you, but that's just not what you communicated.

I've been party to and observer of countless threads and comments on this site over the years about what the right water is to use in kits, the reality is, there is not one right answer. To my knowledge, not even the kit manufacturers have come out and said "Use xxxxxxx water when adding water to your kits". Many people use their municipal tap water or well water, some RO water, some spring water, as long as it tastes good.

I use distilled in beer brewing as well when I brew for friends and family. I don't Intend to sound like a know it all. I'm a bit course I guess.