WineXpert Oak chips in primary

[Kiwisholland]

What is the purpose of adding oak chips into the primary fermentation?

My Forza kit came with 60g of chips. Any benefit to adding more? Especially if I like Big oak. Wouldn't you get more oak flavor from bulk aging on oak?

Thanks

 

[sour_grapes]

What is the purpose of adding oak chips into the primary fermentation?

My Forza kit came with 60g of chips. Any benefit to adding more? Especially if I like Big oak. Wouldn't you get more oak flavor from bulk aging on oak?

Thanks

In primary, the oak chips are said to provide "sacrificial tannins" that get reacted and precipitated instead of the natural tannins that otherwise would be lost. They are said to help with color stability (not oak flavor) as a result.

https://winemakermag.com/1244-red-wine-color-stability-techniques

When grapes are crushed and soaked, colored pigments called anthocyanins are released into the juice. Some of these combine with grape tannins to form soluble compounds that remain in the wine, providing color. Other reaction products, however, are less soluble and drop out of the wine, taking color with them. Purified tannin products are formulated to provide “sacrificial tannins” that will take the place of grape tannins that otherwise might precipitate. In so doing, they help maintain a higher concentration of the soluble grape tannin/anthocyanin complexes in the developing wine. So as the color is released from the skin cells, with or without added enzymes, the sacrificial tannins help keep the color in solution and maintain its presence on into the finished wine.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Thanks. I've found the oak cubes used in secondary to be insufficient for oak taste and add spirals when bulk aging. Is there any reason to think the chips could be increased for THEIR purpose in primary? Say 80-100g?

 

[Boatboy24]

Some will also say they can help reduce vegetal characteristics. But I think this is more in wine from grapes than kits.

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks. I've found the oak cubes used in secondary to be insufficient for oak taste and add spirals when bulk aging. Is there any reason to think the chips could be increased for THEIR purpose in primary? Say 80-100g?

I have no idea. But I add FT Tannin Rouge to primary in addition to whatever the kit comes with. Cannot tell you if it has helped, because I have not done a with/without experiment.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Thanks Sour

 

[GreginND]

Here's a good webinar from the Northern Grapes Project about using tannins in primary - particularly with cold hardy hybrid grapes.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEYAk0WkgaI&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEYAk0WkgaI&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

 

[ibglowin]

Thanks Greg for that link!

 

[Kiwisholland]

Nice! Thanks Greg

 

[heatherd]

Thanks. I've found the oak cubes used in secondary to be insufficient for oak taste and add spirals when bulk aging. Is there any reason to think the chips could be increased for THEIR purpose in primary? Say 80-100g?

I typically use oak powder in primary as a sacrificial tannin, and oak staves after stabilization.

I would say that adding more earlier may not get the result you're looking for, but keeping them in longer and adding more during aging may get there. Additionally, you can create a layered approach to tannins by combining oak staves/chips/beans/powder with tannin powders containing oak or grape tannins. Adjusting the level of toast on your oak, as well as deciding between American, French, and Hungarian is another adjustment. If you can't get "big oak" from those methods, a barrel would be the next step.

Heather

 

[Runningwolf]

I also add oak chips or powder to primary and spirals or stix when aging.

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks Greg, when was that webinar? I have sat in on numerous workshops with Ann Katherine. Cornell and Penn State often do workshops together in my area.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Thanks Heather

 

[GreginND]

Sometime this past spring

 

[knockabout]

I also add tannin powder...still sad over the discontinuation of grand cru tannin...to the primary. After 5-6 months if my wine seems to be lacking in mouthfeel to me I will add more wood and more tannins in the form of powdered tannins to my wine. I like an oak wine but have found what I really love is a high tannin wine with some oakiness. We have tried a couple times to make a tannin bomb style wine and have been unsuccessful...the wines have been good but not overwhelming in tannins, this has taught us not to be shy about adding them to our wine
The Lin Greg out up is awesome. I also find scott lab.com ( look under their tannin) to be very educational about using tannin what they do and when to add what.

 

[heatherd]

Knockabout, have you seen the "over the top" tannins on the Scott labs site? They seem to be perfectly tailored to your interest in big tannins.
Heather

 

[knockabout]

Knockabout, have you seen the "over the top" tannins on the Scott labs site? They seem to be perfectly tailored to your interest in big tannins.
Heather

They are the object of my. Next big wine experiment!

 

[heatherd]

Well, let us know how that turns out - they are interesting to me as well.
Heather