WineXpert New Forza Kit

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Doug’s wines

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Just opened my Forza with plan to start it. The kit has two yeasts similar to a couple other eclipse / LE’s I’ve gotten lately. 1x RC212 and 1x EC1118. I had gone to removing the 1118 from purchased kits and swapping to the 212 so I’m happy however now they are sending both and saying to toss them both at the same time.

The last time I had this situation I pitched the 212 on day one, then 2 days later I pitched the 1118. In the end it went dry, but now I’m wondering if the 1118 really needed to be pitched.... I’ve also had 212 stall at 1.002-3, and nothing got it restarted so maybe so.

I think I’m going with the same plan this time and pitch the 1118 after a couple of days (around 1.050 or so and will use that SG as the guide).

Thoughts?
 

ceeaton

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Just opened my Forza with plan to start it. The kit has two yeasts similar to a couple other eclipse / LE’s I’ve gotten lately. 1x RC212 and 1x EC1118. I had gone to removing the 1118 from purchased kits and swapping to the 212 so I’m happy however now they are sending both and saying to toss them both at the same time.

The last time I had this situation I pitched the 212 on day one, then 2 days later I pitched the 1118. In the end it went dry, but now I’m wondering if the 1118 really needed to be pitched.... I’ve also had 212 stall at 1.002-3, and nothing got it restarted so maybe so.

I think I’m going with the same plan this time and pitch the 1118 after a couple of days (around 1.050 or so and will use that SG as the guide).

Thoughts?
Sounds like a sound plan. I never pitched the EC-1118 and ended up at 0.993 (adjusted to 0.994 for temperature), so though not completely dry, dry enough. Just make sure you feed that RC-212 or it can get a bit stinky. You've used it enough, so sounds like you already know that.
 

malfrune

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All the WE kits I've gotten came with the EC-1118 as backup. I always pitch the other one by itself first and throw the 1118 in there after a week just to make sure it goes dry in secondary. I don't think it's really needed in most cases, I don't take many SG reading to tell though, as long as it's not sweet I'm happy.
 

Doug’s wines

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Thanks guys appreciate the feedback. I was on the fence about pitching the 1118. Only thing I could think was they want to avoid a stall or they think it might be too high in sugar for the 212to finish without running out of nutrients.

I pitched the ec1118 today. Was going to wait another couple of days, but need to go out of town. Here’s hoping the 212 wins the sugar tug of war!
 

jgmann67

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Thanks guys appreciate the feedback. I was on the fence about pitching the 1118. Only thing I could think was they want to avoid a stall or they think it might be too high in sugar for the 212to finish without running out of nutrients.

I pitched the ec1118 today. Was going to wait another couple of days, but need to go out of town. Here’s hoping the 212 wins the sugar tug of war!
I’ve talked to the WE CSR folks about it and found that pitching them both means that the EC1118 will dominate. So, I do what’s been suggested here - pitch the more preferred yeast and keep the workhorse in reserve if the fermentation slows.
 

Doug’s wines

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Thanks. Kind of makes you wonder why they give you both with not explanation if the 1118 is just going to dominate anyway.
 

joeswine

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The ec1118 gives you the starting drive towards fermentation remember they don't know your working environment.. remember that...the other yeast will add the elements to enhance the overall taste profile.: Two different yeast to support different needs to produce one flavor profile.
 
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Doug’s wines

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Going to EM and probably will use finishing tannins depending on how it develops. Comes with oak for primary and later and well as skins so no up front tanin add planned for me. Plus I’ve noticed when I use tanin in primary (the cheap chestnut tanin) I seem to get headaches so I’ve stopped using it for now.
 

jgmann67

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Going to EM and probably will use finishing tannins depending on how it develops. Comes with oak for primary and later and well as skins so no up front tanin add planned for me. Plus I’ve noticed when I use tanin in primary (the cheap chestnut tanin) I seem to get headaches so I’ve stopped using it for now.
Try morewinemaking.com - Tannin Complex or Tannin Rouge in primary, and Tannin Riche Extra in the finish.
 

wineh

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I just did a final racking on this wine. It's kind of bricky in color. The taste while obiously young is not horribly "off" in any way. Anybody else notice this, or do I have a problem? I've heard that Sangiovese wines can do that as they age, but this is young.
 

Bplewniak

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I did a 8 week EM of this kit that I transferred last week. The taste at this point was not as pleasant as others. Obviously it’s very early and time will do wonders.
 

ceeaton

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I just did a final racking on this wine. It's kind of bricky in color. The taste while obiously young is not horribly "off" in any way. Anybody else notice this, or do I have a problem? I've heard that Sangiovese wines can do that as they age, but this is young.
Mine was definitely "brick like" in color, I wouldn't worry. I started mine 7-25-15 and it could still use some more age, though much better now than before. I was going to take a few to the wine meetup later this month at Split Rock to get some more highly sophisticated and refined opinions.
 

jgmann67

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We had one of the Forza's with dinner this weekend. Coloring could be called brick red (though more red than brick). I only have 4 or 5 bottles left. It's easily one of the best wines I've made.
 

Bplewniak

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We had one of the Forza's with dinner this weekend. Coloring could be called brick red (though more red than brick). I only have 4 or 5 bottles left. It's easily one of the best wines I've made.
Did you make the kit by the instruction?

Mine is early and seems to have a while before I plan to bottle. It’s cuttently at 3 months after an EM and has an off taste right now.
 

jgmann67

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Did you make the kit by the instruction?

Mine is early and seems to have a while before I plan to bottle. It’s cuttently at 3 months after an EM and has an off taste right now.
Generally yes, though I think I added some tannin in the finish and skipped the sorbate.

If it’s me, I’d take my time.

If you did an EM, it should be degassed. But, maybe not. Depending on what you mean by “off taste” that could also just be youth.

Rack it, dose it with Kmeta and think about adding some tannin riche extra. Wait 3 months and give it a taste.
 

Bplewniak

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Generally yes, though I think I added some tannin in the finish and skipped the sorbate.

If it’s me, I’d take my time.

If you did an EM, it should be degassed. But, maybe not. Depending on what you mean by “off taste” that could also just be youth.

Rack it, dose it with Kmeta and think about adding some tannin riche extra. Wait 3 months and give it a taste.
That’s the plan to wait at least 6 more months before bottling. Thanks for the feedback.
 

szap

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This is interesting to me. I have made at least 30 wine kits, WE, RJS and one Forza a and I have never had a kit with two yeast packs. How common is this?
 

Johnd

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This is interesting to me. I have made at least 30 wine kits, WE, RJS and one Forza a and I have never had a kit with two yeast packs. How common is this?
Seen it on quite a few kits, seems to be some of the higher end kits. Never quite figured out why they send two, it's almost like a suggestion to try the non-EC1118 yeast. I've always used the alternate yeast in those kits and just put the 1118 in the fridge. You probably already know that 1118 is considered the workhorse of the yeast world for wine, it's pretty forgiving and hard to stop, qualities which wine kit makers find to be quite attractive when producing a product with high success rates. Only real drawback is that it's contribution to the wine profile is considered to be neutral, ie., it doesn't enhance any aspects of the wine, whereas some yeasts are noted to enhance certain fruit flavors or aromas, or enhance mouthfeel or other characteristics.
 
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