RJ Spagnols Nebbiolo (Barolo) - my second kit

[beggarsu]

Hi People!


This is my second wine kit. Grand Cru -Nebbiolo

first mistake I did - I cut the 'tea bag' of oak chips stuff thinking it was like the Harvest Selection instructions - didn't read carefully. I dumped the contents in instead of soaking the 'teabag' Can't be that bad a mistake...?


Second mistake - failed to monitor temperature carefully Darn! the trailer temperature is so variable - one day in the first week - looked and oops! temperature was sky high and yeast over frothing - quickly moved it to the cooler porch - now I constantly monitor temperature. Wasnt' sure how long it was like that. Don't think it's too much problem? - just a faster fermentation but I read somewhere the yeast burns out quickly instead of contantly fermenting gradually. But so long as the SP gets proper?

Thisi kit intsructions are completely different that the Sheraz. I think people are familiar with this. This one, Nebbiolo, has two weeks in the primary then transfer to the carboy and stop the fermeting right there at two weeks - bottle at 4 weeks - these are their newer instructions -apparently they used to follow the same method as Harvest selection and just recently changed their intructions..

I understand the two week thing is probably to help with degassing but I don't understand why this one has only two weeks frementing and the other had three weeks
Harvest Selection = 1 week in primary then transfer to carboy and stop fermenting at three weeks - bottle at 28 days+.

Maybe I should let the fermenting go on for a little longer than 2 weeks?...still transfer it at 2 weeks but let it ferment a little longer - I guess it depends on what the SG is at that stage... if i can trust this SG reader - apparently they are not always accurate....

Well these are my efforts now - any reactions?


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I'm also about to make rhubarb wine - finally figured soemthing to do with my rhubarb other than compost it and I just picked it - but this is a story for anther thread.

 

[FABulousWines]

The times are there to guide you, but the SG readings should be followed religiously. Even if your hydrometer is off a bit as long as it is functioning you will still be able to see when fermentation stops. That is when you get the same reading for three days in a row. It will be obvious too as the wine will become very still.

As far as the teabag thing, no biggie. You will just have a bit more of a chore when racking, but no harm done. I think you will be fine.

 

[beggarsu]

That's good advice and good guidelines - especially the three day rule- thanks.

I have no reason to believe my specific SG reader is faulty. I just read an article about the faults of cheaper SG readers in general. So far my SG reader doesn't seem to have let me down - but I am still new at this.

 

[robie]

Never try to stop a fermentation. Let it go until it is finished, based on the SG. As was mentioned, the times in the instructions are ballpark.

For such a big red, the temperature going high is not any big problem. Sometimes one can't do much about it.

My advice - Anytime you are starting a kit, which you have not done before, prior to starting it, sit down and read ALL the instructions from start to end.

 

[beggarsu]

I transferred to carboy at day 14, at end of June.

Maybe the broken chips in teabag thing did mess me up a little. When I washed the carboy I was kind of dozy and in a hurry but afterwards I thought - I think I washed away a lot of winey good stuff - all the expanded chips were stuck at the bottom and stuck with other stuff. I had only stirred the primary a few times and gently because I didn't want to disturb it too much, but now I sort of realized I should have scrape-stirred it . Maybe the chips not being in the teabag stuck the other good stuff to the bottom.

Perhaps I should have put some wine back in the primary, stirred it well and moved it on to the carboy to let it continue ferment for a few more days and then re-rack.

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Oh yeah, when I was talking about stopping the fermentation I meant "stopping it after it was stopped" as in doing the preserving by adding sorbate.

 

[bakervinyard]

Did you take a S.G. reading and was it the number that the instructions recommend to rack to the carboy. The "stuff" is called gross lees, and when you rack to secondary ie: carboy, you do leave it behind. Ditto what Robie said, please read the directions, then when you're done read them again. I still read my directions even after making wine for 8 years. Bakervinyard

 

[beggarsu]

Did you take a S.G. reading and was it the number that the instructions recommend to rack to the carboy. The "stuff" is called gross lees, and when you rack to secondary ie: carboy, you do leave it behind. Ditto what Robie said, please read the directions, then when you're done read them again. I still read my directions even after making wine for 8 years. Bakervinyard

Yes, I did an SG
and yes I know what lees are
and yes I read the directions many times - I have it memorized.
I just missed that one thing in the first round.

If you read the specifics of my post, which you did not address, you will understand why I think in this case I should have transferred the lees for a while longer. Once something has been changed from a standard procedure it is time to apply thinking and understanding. And also the 'instructions' are over-simplified.

 

[vernsgal]

If it was done fermenting keeping it on the lees longer wouldn't make too much difference. If you think you left too much wine behind when transferring ,in the future you can bottle the excess lees, put it in the fridge and the wine will separate more from it and you can use it for topping up. All wine kits vary from one another on racking dates. Just never rack before it reaches dry or the SG indicated in directions

 

[beggarsu]

If it was done fermenting keeping it on the lees longer wouldn't make too much difference. If you think you left too much wine behind when transferring

Not wine but wine making stuff is what I'm thinking. I'm not sure. Yes, I've seen lees from my first kit , but I haven't seen lees 100 times. It was only after I washed out the primary I thought wait a min! something seemed wrong. The chips that were supposed to be in the floating teabag - quite large and weren't because I cut them out in error - practically cemented to the bottom ( and I didn't realize I should have scrape-stirred it off) and in doing so they seem to have trapped some stuff that didn't get thoroughly mixed or fermented.

So maybe I lost some of the body - or maybe not. Not sure. I didn't examine it closely enough
...
Anyway , nothing can do about it don't think it will be that significant

but I know for next time - don't cut if not supposed to and more vigorous stirring after ferment is going and make sure stuff doesn't get really stuck on bottom while fermenting.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'losing some body'. Leaving behind the oak chips and lees will not harm the wine. The oak chips have given up all they will give after several days, for example. What was the S.G. when you transferred from the primary to the secondary?

 

[beggarsu]

Well now I'm doing a Chateau Du Roi and I have something to compare. The bad news is my initial suspicion was correct the good news is I probably didn't lose much juice.

Perhaps my previous narrative was not clear enough and this information will make it more clear.
...
I pretty much verified by comparison that some juice did not get fermented in the Barolo. So what happened was when I cut open the oak chips into the juice must on the first day some juice adhered to the chips and it settled on the bottom in a sticky clump and a formed had very hard adherence with some kind of protective cover that my normal stirring didn't dislodge.
Stickiness= sugar = unfermented juice. IMO

The first comparison I got is that in the Du Roi, I also broke the 'teabag' but on the fourth day by stirring by accident ( a lesson there next time put the teabag in a net bag.) - the chips remained separate, they did not adhere anywhere nor get sticky by hoarding juice in a clump, all the juice got fermented.

But the good news is that it wasn't that much lost. A comparison of the lees from the Du Roi compared to my somewhat sleepy memory of the Barolo (both rich red wines shows that during washing the lees out of the primary they both turn very red and very rich wine looking ..so that's normal - I think the stickiness was only a little bit of juice sugar unfermented.
As a comparison for me, lees from my Fruit wines and the Shiraz (my first kit) did not wash out so rich wine looking.

The Barolo turned out somewhat good - it gets a lot better after aging at least one month. One friend really sang praises of it. The first bottling day I thought it had turned sour because of the heat problems I had in the summer. I think now it's passable good but not spectacular, I am suspicious something went wrong but I will see as the months go by and I drink and give away the rest.


But it seemed to be better after letting it sit in the air for 20 min first day and now it seemed to taste much better after one month ( I kept the carboy cool in the bathtub when I found the problem - bathtub water was 8 degrees C so I managed to keep the carboy cool after the first 2 weeks of over 20 C or 25C in the primary. but I was worried about the heat and mainlining a constant temperature - it wasn't ideal - I'll never make a wine here in July-Aug again.
And I don't think the Spagnols method of keeping it in the primary 14 days exposed to oxidation was good.

After bottling I kept my wines cool in the crawlspace in the summer even a carboys there for a week - at great painstaking effort- but carboy use in the house in the summer I'll never try again.
The latest bottle seems ok maybe it just needed time.

I'll compare with this Barolo with the du Roi which I am doing under controllable conditions - even though they are different wines I may be able to assess a general comparison somehow.
..
And now I can say I no longer intend to follow the Spagnols directions and I didn't with my DuRoi . It's really doesn't make sense to do two weeks in the primary especially looking dead as a doornail after day six - it's an unnecessary risk for oxidization. I made some changes in the method keeping in mind some of the reasons why some people suggest Spagnols changed their instructions and I will make further changes to this method on my next kit.
..
In summary:
Juice was unfermented because of the chips .. but only a little bit.
The Barolo works but I'm not certain I got the best result -even as I still drink it I have somewhat mixed reactions. I am not a taster expert yet - looks like I will have to do a lot more kits to educate my palate!