my attempt at cider

[Pumpkinman]

After attempting to make a high octane hard cider last season that ended up needing to age 9 months before it started to mellow out and ultimately resulting in more of a semi sweet Pinot Grigio than an apple cider or even an apple wine.

I decided to try it again, this time changing the recipe and going back to basics.
I use 5 gallons of fresh pressed apple cider straight from a local apple farm, Regular table sugar to bring the SG to a nice mild 1.070, I fermented with Nottingham yeast, and used Fermaid K.

My thoughts were that the Notty would ferment to approx. 1.010 giving me an ABV of 7% and a little residual sugar without stripping the apple flavor, in theory, it looked great....

In reality, the Notty fermented down to .994 giving the cider an ABV of 10%, the higher alcohol made it have the typical young wine/green taste that will correct itself with aging.

Fast forward a few months, I decided to taste it, it wasn't bad, but the apple was not very strong, and since I didn't want to end up with another batch of lack luster apple wine, I decided to add more apple flavor by adding 2 cans off 100% apple concentrate and a 64 ounce bottle of 100% pure apple juice, neither had sorbate added, and I back sweetened with light brown sugar and fresh wildflower honey.

The cider actually tasted like cider, but I felt that it was lacking something, I tried a few different samples adding ginger to one, cinnamon to another and ground cloves to the third sample, unfortunately, they weren't was I was looking for, however, I took a half oak infusion spiral, medium toast french, and 2 ounces of untoasted oak (untoasted oak can help to tone down harsh flavors and strong vegetal characteristics in wine), I let it sit over night and tasted it today, PERFECT!

The cider is great, the oak actually added a slight bourbon like taste on the back of your tongue that stays with you.
I'm going to prime and bottle in beer bottles, when it is carbonated, I think just a mild carbonation will work with this cider, I'll pasteurize it to kill off the yeast and stop any further carbonation.

Update:
I bottled today, the flavor was amazing, I cannot wait until it is ready to drink!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Sounds like a typical cider made from sweet drinking cider vs made from cider apple cider which has more tannins in it, so possibly when you oaked it you got a little tannin structure in it to round it out? We pressed our first apples this year to make our own cider and are very lucky to have a wildling crab apple, first bite the acid gives you a sourhead experience and as you recover from that the extreme astringency tries to dry your face off, perfect for cider blending. Surprising how much body our ciders have, you can almost feel it rolling around on your tongue, we are going to plants lots more crabs to blend with our other apples. We are also making a batch from some eating apples and adding some crab cider to it really made a difference. WVMJ

 

[Julie]

Tom, will you be posting instructions on how you pasteurize the cider?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Julie,
Absolutely, I apologize for not posting it...lol....dang old age.....lmao!
Bring a pot of water up to 190°, turn it off and place the bottles in it trying to cover as much of the bottles as you can, don't crowd the pot too much as it will bring the temp down, you'll probably have to use two pots and do a small batch of bottles at a time, place a cover on the pot.
Leave the bottles in the water for 10 mins. You will maintain a taste more like unheated apple cider if you don't bring the cider to a full boil.
After ten mins I'll remove the bottles and let them cool on a counter.

 

[Pumpkinman]

WVMJ, the cider was made from fresh pressed apples from a farm a few miles down the road, they add absolutely nothing, it is the typical murky, brown fresh cider that tastes awesome.

 

[LoveTheWine]

Tom

I just finished bottling carbonating Cider by the pasteurization method and let me tell you it works great.
I did have some exploding bottles and plan to heat the water and pour into a cooler instead next time eliminating the bottles touching hot metal.

 

[BernardSmith]

A question about your carbonation technique, Tom. From your post it sounds like you fermented the cider a while ago. When you added sugar to carbonate the cider did you add more yeast - or slurry - or was there still enough dormant yeast to convert the sugar. Thanks.

 

[LoneStarLori]

I am curious about the carbonation too. I have some cider that I started in october. I want to carbonate it but have never done that so I've been holding out till I can study it more.
I am confused about the back sweetening and priming. Mine also needs back sweetening, but doesn't back sweetening restart fermentation? I did not stabilize mine yet because I didn't know if I should if I want to prime it for carbonating.

 

[Deezil]

WVMJ, the cider was made from fresh pressed apples from a farm a few miles down the road, they add absolutely nothing, it is the typical murky, brown fresh cider that tastes awesome.

Tom,

Jack was speaking about the type of apples used to make the cider. The farm probably has lots of Gala, Fuji, Golden Del., Red. Del., etc..

But they probably dont grow many actual Cider apples or Perry pears... These are more akin to crabapples that he spoke of, where they arent so much good for eating raw - but they are perfect for this application

High acidity, high tannins, low sugar = Cider/Perry apples/pears



And I always add pears to my apple wine.. Something to think about for next time.. The two fruits marry very well in the bottle; the pear helps to flesh out the apple characteristics, sort of filling-in for whatever the apple profile may be missing, without overwhelming the apple

 

[Pumpkinman]

Deezil,
Thanks, adding pear sounds great!
as far as the carbonation, there is usually enough yeast left in suspension to carbonate, if you have concerns, you can add 1 gram of EC-1118 per 5 gallon batch in the bottling bucket, it works great for lagers.
Aaron,
I'll try that too, it sounds reasonable that the hot metal can cause a few to "blow".

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Yes, fantastic tasting sweet cider, good to drink, makes an ok cider, but compared to cider apples that contain some tannis to bring some structure and astringency to balance the cider out well, sweet cider not the best choice but unfortunately that is all most people can get, which is why I think when you oaked it you turned it into something much better. We have started putting in some fermirouge soft just to add a bit more mouthfeel, combined with the tannic crabs its turning out nice, drinkable in about 2 months when its cleared and continues to improve. You apple farm probably has some crabs growing for pollination, you might ask them if you can do in there and pick a few pounds of crab apples for your cider, who knows, maybe they will plant some Hewes crabs or other cider apples if you show them some interest? BUt even the little crabs from the pollinator trees can help out a cider made from commonly grown apples turn into something great.

WVMJ

 

[BernardSmith]

Deezil,
Thanks, adding pear sounds great!
as far as the carbonation, there is usually enough yeast left in suspension to carbonate, if you have concerns, you can add 1 gram of EC-1118 per 5 gallon batch in the bottling bucket, it works great for lagers.
Aaron,
I'll try that too, it sounds reasonable that the hot metal can cause a few to "blow".

If you add yeast to hard cider where the ABV is around 5 or 6 % or higher doesn't the alcohol in the cider inhibit the action of freshly pitched yeast?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Bernard, there are yeasts that are very good at getting a stuck fermentation going, 5% alcohol is not very high when you consider that EC1118 can go up to 18% if you treat it right. Best to make a starter but just sprinkling it on top will still work. WVMJ

 

[BernardSmith]

Bernard, there are yeasts that are very good at getting a stuck fermentation going, 5% alcohol is not very high when you consider that EC1118 can go up to 18% if you treat it right. Best to make a starter but just sprinkling it on top will still work. WVMJ

Hi WVMJ, While I understand that some yeasts are really good at restarting stuck ferments I would assume that you need to add increasingly larger quantities of the stuck must to an active colony of yeast for that yeast to restart the fermentation.

Are you suggesting that I should be able to add unreconstituted yeast to a fully fermented hard cider if I am looking for carbonation?
What if I don't stabilize the cider and if it has been aging for say two months, is there likely to be enough active yeast still in the cider to result in carbonation even if I don't add more yeast? How long will the yeast remain viable even if they have not been fed in months?

 

[LoveTheWine]

Hi WVMJ, While I understand that some yeasts are really good at restarting stuck ferments I would assume that you need to add increasingly larger quantities of the stuck must to an active colony of yeast for that yeast to restart the fermentation.

Are you suggesting that I should be able to add unreconstituted yeast to a fully fermented hard cider if I am looking for carbonation?
What if I don't stabilize the cider and if it has been aging for say two months, is there likely to be enough active yeast still in the cider to result in carbonation even if I don't add more yeast? How long will the yeast remain viable even if they have not been fed in months?

If your cider is still a bit cloudy in all likelihood you can just add priming sugar and bottle and the cider will carb up just fine. If it cleared substantially it is a wise idea to add up to a packet of yeast with the priming sugar and mix really, really well and then bottle.

Last year I stabilized my cider, it took three months until I bottled and the cider was crystal clear. The cider DID NOT carb up. Ever since, I add a bit of ale yeast at bottling time and it works like a charm.

 

[BernardSmith]

Thanks Aaron. Much appreciated. My LHBS owner had suggested that I use the lees from earlier ciders as he felt that even the 6 or 7 % ABV would likely inhibit yeast activity if I simply inoculated the cider with yeast that was to rehydrate in the cider. I felt that adding lees to cider I was planning to bottle immediately would result in an unacceptable level of cloudiness...

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Whats wrong with cloudy cider? Some of the lads like a good Scrumpy! When you carb cider with yeast you are basically just making champagne, same rules apply. I would never suggest someone use old lees, if the donor batch had some funny infection now 2 batches are infected. When I got a stuck ferment I will make a starter with nutrients (like goferm), after it gets going add a volume of must, let it get going, add another volume, once the yeast likes that then dump it in. In your case not sure why the yeast stopped, maybe to cold, not enough nutrients, hard to say, but a starter with stepped additions of must usually works well. WVMJ

 

[LoveTheWine]

I think this thread is officially hijacked from Tom... lol.

Whats wrong with cloudy cider? Some of the lads like a good Scrumpy! When you carb cider with yeast you are basically just making champagne, same rules apply. I would never suggest someone use old lees, if the donor batch had some funny infection now 2 batches are infected. When I got a stuck ferment I will make a starter with nutrients (like goferm), after it gets going add a volume of must, let it get going, add another volume, once the yeast likes that then dump it in. In your case not sure why the yeast stopped, maybe to cold, not enough nutrients, hard to say, but a starter with stepped additions of must usually works well. WVMJ

WVMJ:
No one has stated they don't like a cloudy cider nor has anyone complained here of a stuck fermentation. Bernard just wanted to know how to carb up his cider.

Letting bottles age in a cold room after carbonation and pasteurization will clear the cider up again but each bottle will have a small amount of yeast packed on the bottom of the bottle.

Simply put earlier by Tom:

as far as the carbonation, there is usually enough yeast left in suspension to carbonate, if you have concerns, you can add 1 gram of EC-1118 per 5 gallon batch in the bottling bucket, it works great for lagers

I like to use ale yeast as it doesn't seem to produce as dry a product, but 1118 works good too.
You probably don't want to add a ton of old lees, a small amount of 'washed yeast' from the same batch or 1 pack of dried yeast will work fine.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2010/01/30/yeast-washing-101/