MLF: My hopes are going down....

[geek]

Around June 18 I posted the pics above for the first test.
Here are new pics for the test done yesterday/today.

Again, forget the far right one b/c it is a kit that I just wanted to see how much malic acid was/is in it (A LOT).

Do you guys see some progress after 3 weeks?

..

 

[geek]

This may be a better pic....

 

[Turock]

You have more malic than lactic. Which MLB are you using?

 

[Pumpkinman]

The streaks that you see in the "Malic" line, could be just that, streaks, but..... I'm more curious about why you are rushing MLF?
I started my MLF about the same time as you, I believe that you first used the white labs MLB, then added another MLB, possibly VP41, please correct me if I am wrong, my point is, my MLF is still going fairly strong, and even if yours isn't visible, it may still need more time.
The way I look at it is this:
The wine is going to take at least 1 year or more before it is ready, why rush it? If you leave it for another month (I'll use a month just as an example), what harm is there?
Trust me when I tell you that if you rush things, you most likely will not like the end results as much as if you let the wine take its time, I tried to rush four 6 gallon batches last fall, I jumped the gun and tried all of these new "tweaks" that I had learned, what a mistake, and this was even when some of the more experienced wine makers told me to wait, give it time.... I've been able to recover 2, possibly three batches, I'll start working on the forth batch soon.
That said, the best advice that I can give you is that MLF appears to be done, or just about done, I'd let things sit for another 2 weeks or so, then rack the wine and add meta, get that wine stabilized once MLF is complete.

 

[geek]

Not rushing, just looking to see if it has made progress over 3 weeks.
I used Lalvin Bacchus as recommended.

Comparing the 2 tests I can see a little bit of improvement in terms of the malic vanishing slightly. Remember the one to the far right doesn't really count as it is a kit NOT going through MLF (not MLB added).

..

 

[joeswine]

Mlf

Geek, I'm going to sound like a downer on this one but and but MLF, isn't really a process that a home winemaker should try you can have a very bad effect on wine if not monitored extremely close ,you could actually take all the flavor of your wine away that's why I don't recommend for the average winemaker .and other folks on this wine form we know a lot more about that than I do ,but for me MLF is not my vocabulary. It is actually designed for fresh grapes, not kits and not juice ,unless you absolutely know what you're doing and never in a kit! Like I said were sound like a downer but that's my view..................jpT

 

[Pumpkinman]

Joe,
I have the highest respect for you and your wine making, but I have to respectfully disagree that Malolactic fermentation isn't for the home wine maker, or that it shouldn't be used on juice pails.
You have many more years of experience than me, but I've spoken in depth to a few of the bigger juice pail distributers, and they all recommend mlf on the red wine juice pails.
Heck, I have been to one winery and lhbs thst sells thousands of gallons of wine made from juice pails.
There are a few people that are having issues with mlf, for what easily looks like an inferior mlb was used.
How many people have complained about a wine made from a cheap kit?... tons, no one tells them that they shouldn't make kits anymore, everyone tells them that they got what they paid for, and to buy a top end kit next time.
Its easy to hear everyone talk about mlf and it's benefits, and then try it without researching it, instead of telling people thst as a home wine maker they shouldn't try it, I would rather see people grow with the hobby.
I haven't been around long, and don't claim to know a lot, to date I've made approx 15 batches of wine, numerous fruit wines, meads and hard cider, of those 9 went through mlf, only one was stalled because I used the first mlb I found, white labs, after this, I did alot of research and haven't had any issues with mlf since.
Please don't take this as a "bashing your advice", I feel that a home winemaker can use tools such as mlb.

 

[joeswine]

Mlf

WHAT . I stated was if you are not a accomplished wine maker than maybe this is something you shouldn't try at this point ,until you get more wine making time under your belt, it's about chemistry and application, and that comes from experience, I personally have had no great experiences with MLF in my wine making history, there are other ways of smoothing out the process,PUMPKINMAN,you and I can always agree to disagree, I know your an accomplished wine maker and that goes without saying, but it my point of view ,for a home winemaker MLF, is something they should deal with when science and taste have evolved to make a decent wine, and to understand the chemistry involve, in that evolution. Starting out ,not so good an idea, the basics are more important...then you can grow. Still love me.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Lol....joe, of course we all still love you!
I appreciate your reply,
Respectfully,
Tom

 

[HangenOn]

I think any serious winemaker (making dry reds) that wants to move beyond kits needs to get comfortable with MLF. It is as much about stability as it is flavor profile.

It really isn't any more challenging than alcohol fermentation if you select a good MLB. (Like many, I had a bad experience with the liquid culture from White Labs). The hardest part is being patient enough to let it finish.

It is also extremely important not to rely on visual cues but to test for progress and completion.

 

[joeswine]

Need to know

IT, all goes back to gathering knowledge, which comes with time and good sanitations and chemistry skills, luck doesn't come into the equalization as a rule. Also knowing, not all wines benefit from MLF.THIS once again comes from time /trial and error and patients, at least that's my take on it...............off topic for me.....

 

[berrycrush]

Am I reading the same Chromo chart as everyone else? Your "Malbec" shows significant Malic reduction compared with the "Malbec Kit" (unMLFed). Your MLF looks working very well to me.