I am making 5 gal of juice concentrate wine, with 5 lbs of frozen strawberries and 3 lbs of bananas to help add some additional body and nose. I am going to simmer the bananas, but will I get better juice extraction and flavor if I thaw and mash the berries (usual treatment) or if I thaw and purée them? I am not in a hurry, so if purée creates more sediment or lengthens clearing time I can live with that.
Mashed vs. puréed fruit?
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Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
With Strawberries the fruit will pretty much break down on it's own during the fermentation I just racked a 3 gallon batch from 1 gallon carboy's after secondary finished. LOTS of lees (about 2 1/2" per 1 gal carboy). That batch was made with 14lbs of frozen berries. They mashed up pretty well on their own in a bag. From Primary to Secondary (Plastic Bucket) to 1 gallon carboys I had about 3/4 of a quart of lees. Going from finished Secondary with this first racking I had a full quart of lees.
(Actually had more but I strained the lees from each 1 gal carboy with a metal strainer and returned what passed through to the new 1 gal.) That has already settled some overnight and I now have about 1 -1/2" of lees per gallon carboy. Still doing the straining I had to add about 2 cups of water to each carboy. Fortunately the dilution should not be too much since I started with a Brix of 25.5 and the K1-V1116 yeast that's good to 18% ABV. I may wind up going down to 2.5 gals to avoid any further dilution. Will take another 2-3 weeks before I do another racking.
By the way I checked the 1 qt of lees that was left after straining - this afternoon it was like a thick pudding. Might make a great ice cream topping if you don't mind the yeasty taste.
(Actually had more but I strained the lees from each 1 gal carboy with a metal strainer and returned what passed through to the new 1 gal.) That has already settled some overnight and I now have about 1 -1/2" of lees per gallon carboy. Still doing the straining I had to add about 2 cups of water to each carboy. Fortunately the dilution should not be too much since I started with a Brix of 25.5 and the K1-V1116 yeast that's good to 18% ABV. I may wind up going down to 2.5 gals to avoid any further dilution. Will take another 2-3 weeks before I do another racking.
By the way I checked the 1 qt of lees that was left after straining - this afternoon it was like a thick pudding. Might make a great ice cream topping if you don't mind the yeasty taste.
Appreciated! I threw the frozen berries in the fridge to thaw, and was able to hand mash them into a paste with pretty minimal effort. I pitched yeast this morning, and tonight when I checked it I saw a bit of berry that had floated up and was completely white.
Double Daylo
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I have no idea if this info is accurate at all so take it for what it is.
When I first started I read somewhere that it is best to press the fruit for a couple different reasons over blending.
1. Makes clearing the wine far easier. We use a mesh bag to put the fruit in while in primaries. Makes clean up and everything far easier.
2. Just like grapes I read that when you blend you are then crushing up the seeds and breaking down the fruit far too much. This may cause some off flavors. Like I said take with a grain of salt. No idea how true this statement is.
With that being said we make over 10 gallons a month and always just press it.
When I first started I read somewhere that it is best to press the fruit for a couple different reasons over blending.
1. Makes clearing the wine far easier. We use a mesh bag to put the fruit in while in primaries. Makes clean up and everything far easier.
2. Just like grapes I read that when you blend you are then crushing up the seeds and breaking down the fruit far too much. This may cause some off flavors. Like I said take with a grain of salt. No idea how true this statement is.
With that being said we make over 10 gallons a month and always just press it.
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
Agree with the concerns about blending many of the fruit types. IF there are going to be seeds in your fruit like blackberry, blueberry, strawberrys etc. Even though small your blending may release things that will adversely influence the final flavor and smell of your wine. Fruits like Peach - about the only thing you might do is release something from the skin - which in my experience pretty much breaks down completely anyway.
My peach in primary right now filled the bag initially - just had enough slack to tie the end. Now - days in the bag has less then 1/5 of what it had before the pulp has broken down a great deal - enough to escape the bag.
Fruits like strawberry and blueberry have seeds so small that they escape most bags anyway and from the comments on these wine making boards, you want to removes those small seeds as soon as possible to avoid any bitter or off tastes the can produce.
Maybe someone can tell us if a muslin bag works better for fruit like strawberries or blueberries - those with very fine seeds.
My peach in primary right now filled the bag initially - just had enough slack to tie the end. Now - days in the bag has less then 1/5 of what it had before the pulp has broken down a great deal - enough to escape the bag.
Fruits like strawberry and blueberry have seeds so small that they escape most bags anyway and from the comments on these wine making boards, you want to removes those small seeds as soon as possible to avoid any bitter or off tastes the can produce.
Maybe someone can tell us if a muslin bag works better for fruit like strawberries or blueberries - those with very fine seeds.
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
Peach batch hit 1.012 today. I pulled the bag of peaches. No skins identifiable as such. Unfortunately my bag is pretty much shot. Trying to wring out the juice captured in the peach residue did it in.
After I finished draining/straining the residue I recovered my container for the night. Will transfer to glass carboys tomorrow but it was still bubbling along quite well after all the work. It may finish below 1.000 before I get it transferred at the rate it's percolating along. (Put on hard cover and bubbler on day 2 of the fermentation.)
Have to find a stronger bag material for peaches I guess. Blackberries and blueberries pretty much just disintegrate and leave just large particles behind.
My press didn't work well because the peaches just squirted through the holes in the press. The bag was unusable. May check into Muslin as a 'straining bag' Found it for $2.99 a yard for natural color (36"x36") I know Hobby Lobby has at least 5-6 varieties of muslin cloth but several are "Permanent press" treated and I don't think that would be a good choice. (Little more expensive anyway compared to regular muslin.)
After I finished draining/straining the residue I recovered my container for the night. Will transfer to glass carboys tomorrow but it was still bubbling along quite well after all the work. It may finish below 1.000 before I get it transferred at the rate it's percolating along. (Put on hard cover and bubbler on day 2 of the fermentation.)
Have to find a stronger bag material for peaches I guess. Blackberries and blueberries pretty much just disintegrate and leave just large particles behind.
My press didn't work well because the peaches just squirted through the holes in the press. The bag was unusable. May check into Muslin as a 'straining bag' Found it for $2.99 a yard for natural color (36"x36") I know Hobby Lobby has at least 5-6 varieties of muslin cloth but several are "Permanent press" treated and I don't think that would be a good choice. (Little more expensive anyway compared to regular muslin.)
The grain bags for BIAB brewing are very sturdy and, if you can spray off most of the gunk, machine washable. Just don't put it in the dryer. They are fine enough to keep most of the grist in the bag, which for me is usually as fine or finer than any fruit gunk.
Arne
Senior Member
We tried a a bag made from unbleached muslin. I was using it with some hot peppers in a apple wine. Everything went fine, it actually did work. One small problem, tho. Once the ferment got going good, every time I opened the fermenter the bag was blown up like a balloon, floating on top of the must. Think the weave was too fine and when it got wet it would hold the gas in. Made some other bags from some course mesh material. Probably 1/8 in. mesh. Work fine, when pressing I just squeeze by hand, don't use a press for most fruits. Freeze, put in bag, thaw and let em ferment. When done, squeeze a bit and pull the pulp out. Arne.
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
Thanks Arne - That's one thing I wondered about. Muslin is a pretty tight weave compared to those mesh bags. I'll have to look at hobby lobby for some cloth that is a looser weave but strong enough. I didn't want to hang that bag of peach 'residue' out in the open while it dripped. There was at least 2 quarts of liquid in there even after an initial moderate squeezing of the bag.
I wonder - possibly dumping the contents of the mesh bag into a muslin bag to squeeze. (Sanitized and dampened so it doesn't catch to much of the juice from the must residue.) Lot of extra work but the bag has to be emptied anyway - just putting in a second finer muslin bag. Perhaps that's too much for too little gain but a thought. Right now that 2 quarts is covered and waiting for my next racking so that I can add it back in to top off the three 1 gallon carboys in secondary fermentation.
Muslin does come in handy for some other things around the 'winery' here. I got one yard [36"x36"] and made it into 3 fermenting bucket covers 18"x18", 3 filters for Pre-filtering after back sweetening 9"x9", and 4 covers for carboys or other small containers to keep bugs and junk out of things like my yeast starter mix that I leave out overnight while the batch is sanitized with the campden tabs.
I wonder - possibly dumping the contents of the mesh bag into a muslin bag to squeeze. (Sanitized and dampened so it doesn't catch to much of the juice from the must residue.) Lot of extra work but the bag has to be emptied anyway - just putting in a second finer muslin bag. Perhaps that's too much for too little gain but a thought. Right now that 2 quarts is covered and waiting for my next racking so that I can add it back in to top off the three 1 gallon carboys in secondary fermentation.
Muslin does come in handy for some other things around the 'winery' here. I got one yard [36"x36"] and made it into 3 fermenting bucket covers 18"x18", 3 filters for Pre-filtering after back sweetening 9"x9", and 4 covers for carboys or other small containers to keep bugs and junk out of things like my yeast starter mix that I leave out overnight while the batch is sanitized with the campden tabs.
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yanks4carolyn
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I use queen size knee high hose/stockings. Wash and sanitize, stretch over a big mouth deep container/pitcher, fill and tie. I've never had one tear or burst. It works for me.
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