LE16 Cab franc and ec-1118 please help yeast question

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Smok1

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I am starting another higher end red wine kit LE16 can franc kit, i noticed thos is the second high end red kit that i have bought recently that comes with the ec-1118 yeast, on lavilins website it says ec1118 are for sparkling and white wines and i have been reading on these forums that different yeast strains compliment red wines better than the 1118. I recently did the rjs wine makers trio with the 1118 but am looking to use rc 212 for this cab franc. I have never strayed from instructions before and need some proffesional help. 1. I noticed that the red wine kit says it may contain wild yeast, which would explain why the manufacturer is using 1118, and also the alchohal tolerance is higher with 1118, so my question is should i use the rc 212 which is suppose to compliment red wines better and finish off the fermentation with 1118 or 1116? If so can someone pmease tell me how to do this, i would appreciate any feedback or advice thank you
 

sour_grapes

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I believe manufacturers include EC1118 because it is a workhorse that will get the job done. Many of us, myself included, swap out that yeast for another yeast, in hopes of improving the wine. IMHO, RC212 is a fine, fine choice. I also use ICV-D254, RP15, SYR, and BM45 on kits, and have never had any problems. I do not even believe that you will need to finish off with EC-1118.
 

Smok1

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I believe manufacturers include EC1118 because it is a workhorse that will get the job done. Many of us, myself included, swap out that yeast for another yeast, in hopes of improving the wine. IMHO, RC212 is a fine, fine choice. I also use ICV-D254, RP15, SYR, and BM45 on kits, and have never had any problems. I do not even believe that you will need to finish off with EC-1118.
Thank you, i bought the RC 212 for it i just needed to hear it from someone else before i used it, i was also reading on lalvins website that the need for yeast nutrient may be needed using the rc 212, do you have any idea how much i would need to add?
 

DG2001

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I believe manufacturers include EC1118 because it is a workhorse that will get the job done. Many of us, myself included, swap out that yeast for another yeast, in hopes of improving the wine. IMHO, RC212 is a fine, fine choice. I also use ICV-D254, RP15, SYR, and BM45 on kits, and have never had any problems. I do not even believe that you will need to finish off with EC-1118.
Sour grapes I hate to hijack the thread but what are your thoughts on the 71B in the Grenache Cab?
 

rustbucket

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Smok1,

I've got this same wine kit going but I used the EC-1118 that came with the kit. The wine I made should be ready for bottling in a few weeks.

Like Sour Grapes, I tended to substitute what I considered to be a more appropriate yeast for the EC 1118 that comes in most WinExpert kits. Recently, however, I've started to rethink that practice. A great deal of research and testing goes into developing the wine kits we buy, Grape juice in the kit is properly balanced for acidity, sugars, and PH; chemicals included are properly proportioned; and a set of instructions is put together; and all of this done in order to give you a finished wine in keeping with the expected result from the grape variety you chose in selecting that particular wine kit. This combination of ingredients and balancing is designed to take advantage of yeast characteristics imparted from the yeast included in the kit.

Substituting yeast like RC-212 will result in a wine being produced; but its character will be different. Without doing a controlled experiment, you won't know if that wine came out better than that produced by using the EC-1118. Maybe the yeast you substitute enhances fruitiness in a wine that has already been designed to be fruit forward or uses up nutrients that may be needed in another phase of the wine making process thus creating a wine that doesn't taste anything like the Cabernet Franc that you're familiar with. Maybe it's better to your taste or maybe it's not; but it will be different.

My current thinking is that, as a rule, you're more likely to get a wine similar to what you envision based on the commercial wines you've had by using the wine kit ingredients without substitution.
 

Smok1

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I have to admit i am sceptical of changing yeast strains because im not a proffessional and have always stick with the EC1118. But after reading this post


I just came from a meeting with RJSpagnols. We had a discussion about yeast in the kits and using a starter opposed to sprinkling the yeast. The new head vintner for RJS told us she has plans of introducing some new yeasts into certain wines in the near further no date given. She also stated that EC-1118 is used in their kits currently is it is considered a yeast that is capable of finishing the job no matter what. RC 212 and others not so much many other yeasts need to be monitored and steps taken right away when signs of yeast stress show. This takes some knowledge and practice and is easy to with some experience. Manufactures however set up kits for the first time brewer so EC 1118 gets the nod. RJS does not say not to substitute yeast in their kits you can change the profile of a wine very easily by doing this. Just keep a close watch on the ferment and have fun.You will void the warranty on the kit. Any one that makes kit wines regularly should not have an issue with this and will make a wine that suits the profile they want.

And also reading lalvins website that ec1118 is for white wines and champagnes i dont think kit manufactures put ec1118 in there kits because its the best choice. I believe its the best choice for the kit manufacturers because they know it will get the job done, EC1118 will never get stuck fermentations, has high alchohal tolerance, needs very little nutrients and can basically "ferment a brick" another quote i stole from this forum. I dont think EC1118 does anything to benefit a nice red wine. I know i dont have anything to do a side by side comparison and i have not decided if im going to go with EC1118 which is a sure thing and im sure it will turn out a nice wine or if i should risk a little with RC212 and find out what i can gain from it. Id like to hear a bit more from people who have switched from EC1118 to RC212 and the techiniques they have used first. In the meantime i am going to start my LE Blanc de Noir and follow the instructions using the EC1118. I will hold onto the Cabernet Franc until i get direction and a boost of confidence.
 

Smok1

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Your probly right, i guess im not asking of its ok, i know its ok, because i already own the wine kit and the yeast and it wont break the bank if it doesnt work out, ive already done the research and i know EC1118 is a beginners yeast that cant go wrong, selecting a yeast that can compliment a wines notes is for pros, i was just asking for some advise on how to get my feet wet with the pros, we all have to start somewhere. Here seemed like the place to ask for advise.
 

semenn

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In the fall of last year, three kinds of yeasts were used in the production of Cabernet Sauvignon wine: 1118, 212, 254. With absolute equal raw materials and fermentation conditions, 254 had the best result. If you have already made wine from this set with yeast 1118, then maybe you should try other strains of yeast for understanding about the change in taste and aroma.
 

sour_grapes

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Your probly right, i guess im not asking of its ok, i know its ok, because i already own the wine kit and the yeast and it wont break the bank if it doesnt work out, ive already done the research and i know EC1118 is a beginners yeast that cant go wrong, selecting a yeast that can compliment a wines notes is for pros, i was just asking for some advise on how to get my feet wet with the pros, we all have to start somewhere. Here seemed like the place to ask for advise.
IMHO, swapping yeast is pretty benign. Don't worry -- just pitch what you want!

If it makes you feel any better, here was my first scaredy-cat post on this subject: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41011
 

Smok1

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Ummmm, what Grenache Cab?
2016 limited edition gren cab from wine expert, 18L kits, i didnt get this one becAuse it sold out right away here. I did manage to get the Blanc Noir and the Cab Franc

IMG_3308.PNG
 

Smok1

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I think the kits will use 1118 as a business compromise; not the ideal yeast, but it had a much better fermentation success rate. Live on the wild side, pitch some D47 or D254!
Problem is the wine stores in my area dont live on the wild side, only 1 of 6 wine stores even sell anything but EC1118, my other options are EC1116 or RC212. Seems the RC212 is the best fit for a red wine. The other issue im having is all the forums i can find for pitching RC212 talk about using Goferm or Fermaid. The wine suppliers in my area only supply "yeast nutrient" and its in bulk so all i have is a ziplock bag of white crystals with no instructions on amounts or how to use. Does anyone know how much to add?
 

NorCal

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Problem is the wine stores in my area dont live on the wild side, only 1 of 6 wine stores even sell anything but EC1118, my other options are EC1116 or RC212. Seems the RC212 is the best fit for a red wine. The other issue im having is all the forums i can find for pitching RC212 talk about using Goferm or Fermaid. The wine suppliers in my area only supply "yeast nutrient" and its in bulk so all i have is a ziplock bag of white crystals with no instructions on amounts or how to use. Does anyone know how much to add?
I get all my supplies sent to me. What country are you in?

You would need to understand what is in the nutrient, what brand name it is, or ask the question from the person that sold it to you, to know how much to use. Here are my usage amounts:

1.2 grams per gallon of must, brix >24.5
1.25 gram of Go-Ferm for every gram of yeast
28 grams / 1 hl (26.4 gallons) of must 1/2 start of ferm, 1/2 @ 9 brix drop
 

Smok1

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I get all my supplies sent to me. What country are you in?

You would need to understand what is in the nutrient, what brand name it is, or ask the question from the person that sold it to you, to know how much to use. Here are my usage amounts:

1.2 grams per gallon of must, brix >24.5
1.25 gram of Go-Ferm for every gram of yeast
28 grams / 1 hl (26.4 gallons) of must 1/2 start of ferm, 1/2 @ 9 brix drop
Thank you, im in canada, i will find an online supplier and get the proper stuff i need. Will need to wait for the next kit anyways now because i started the Cab Franc last night and chickened out and used the yeast the kit came with EC1118.
 

bjinacab

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Can you use more than one type of yeast at the same time? For example, could you use 2/3 of the EC1118 and 1/3 of the D254?
 

sour_grapes

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Can you use more than one type of yeast at the same time? For example, could you use 2/3 of the EC1118 and 1/3 of the D254?
That particular combination is okay, because D254 is not sensitive to the killer factor that EC1118 excretes. However, in general people believe that one strain of yeast or the other will dominate the fermentation, i.e., by the end of the fermentation there will be a preponderance of one type or the other. But there is no harm in doing as you suggest.
 

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