I have a PLAN!

[vinny]

Scary thought!

I just reconstituted a Tempranillo, Trinity Red, Cabernet Zinfandel, and a Bourbon Chardonnay. I was talked into the chardonnay with a taste test. SLIGHT, slight bourbon flavour, very bright and rounded.

Anyway, the Trinity red is a Cab Franc, Cab Sauv, Merlot blend.

The yeasts I have beyond EC-1118 and K1- V116 are;

• RC-212
• Cotes De Blancs
• QA23
• RP15
• D47
• BM4x4
• 71B
• D254

My plan currently is to use RP 15 for the Trinity blend, D254 for the Tempranillo, BM4x4 for the Cab Zin, and D47 for the Chardonnay with Sur Lie and Battonage. Not really sure how often, and for what duration I will continue the Sur Lie and Battonage, perhaps based on progression and taste?

And that's all I've got!

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[winemaker81]

To do a real sur lie / bâtonnage, you need fine lees. Doing the 14 Day ferment (a la FWK) eliminates too much fine lees. My thought is to track the SG in the primary fermenter until it's been stable for 3 days and below 1.000. At that point, the gross lees should have dropped. Rack into a 23 liter carboy and do not top up. Add 1/4 tsp K-meta.

The following is based upon what I've read professionals do, which is geared towards tanks (hundreds or thousands of gallons), not 23 liters. So I'm adjusting.

Stir the wine gently with a drill-mounted stirring rod for 30 seconds, daily for 2 weeks. This should be enough to stir up the sediment and distribute it.

At this point the wine should be degassed and I'm not comfortable with not topping up, so I'd add 1/4 tsp K-meta and top up the carboy to within 3" / 7.6 cm of the stopper. Leave enough room that you can get the stirring rod in without overflowing.

Stir very gently on a weekly basis for 12 weeks. At this point the wine is ~4 months old.

Add 1/4 tsp K-meta and let it rest 2 months. If you're going to use the K&C, add it, then let the wine rest a further 2 weeks, then rack and bottle.

 

[vinny]

Hmmm.... What do you think about Vacuum for the first 2 weeks. The other option is topping off with CO2. I do have a tank.

I know @BigDaveK stirs by twisting on a lazy susan, which would allow me to top up higher. That might be an idea. I usually vacuum rack which would be beneficial with a lazy susan to degass, but perhaps not a good idea if I'm not topping up.

These kits are two weeks too, but I usually wait until day 9 to rack. Day 6 to 7 is usually pretty inactive and by day 8 or 9 it is usually sitting at .996 or .994. I get about an inch of fine lees on average.

 

[winemaker81]

I'd not use a vacuum as I don't want the wine degassed too quickly.

However, the idea of stirring via lazy susan may work. If you have one, it's worth trying.

 

[BigDaveK]

I had my doubts about using a lazy susan and that's one reason I tried it. After 15 seconds or so everything is swirling, fine lees gone from the bottom. It's super gentle on the wine - is that good or bad, don't know.

I top up real close to the stopper or bung and I've never had a big foam build up. I think the lazy susan batonnage is too gentle for any meaningful degassing...but then of course that's not the reason it's done.

 

[vinny]

I had my doubts about using a lazy susan and that's one reason I tried it. After 15 seconds or so everything is swirling, fine lees gone from the bottom. It's super gentle on the wine - is that good or bad, don't know.

I top up real close to the stopper or bung and I've never had a big foam build up. I think the lazy susan batonnage is too gentle for any meaningful degassing...but then of course that's not the reason it's done.

I can be a real miser. I had a lazy Susan serving plate. The wood warped, but hey maybe I'll need the spinny thing one day. I am always Mcgyvering. I will have to screw it onto some plywood, then the only question is can it handle the weight of a full carboy..

 

[Raptor99]

@BigDaveK That might be a solution for. I like to top up my carboys almost to the stopper, so there is not room to use a drill mounter stirrer

What sort of lazy Susan are you using that can take the weight of a full carboy?

 

[BigDaveK]

I can be a real miser. I had a lazy Susan serving plate. The wood warped, but hey maybe I'll need the spinny thing one day. I am always Mcgyvering. I will have to screw it onto some plywood, then the only question is can it handle the weight of a full carboy..

I know what you mean. Something has to be destroyed almost to elemental compounds before it's trashed. And it helps to have a barn.

 

[BigDaveK]

@BigDaveK That might be a solution for. I like to top up my carboys almost to the stopper, so there is not room to use a drill mounter stirrer

What sort of lazy Susan are you using that can take the weight of a full carboy?

Believe it or not, I'm using a lazy susan intended for cake decorating that turned into a dust magnet. Easily handles a 3-gallon carboy. I've also made lazy susans (the hardware is a few bucks) but haven't seen a need to use my homemade beefier versions.

 

[heatherd]

@vinny I typically use RC212 for reds and like the results.

 

[vinny]

@vinny I typically use RC212 for reds and like the results.

I used RC212 for my Pinot noir and it turned out very nice. I guess it is not as fun for everyone else as I thought it might be to pick my yeasts.

I went with what I had listed, but I am planning some juice buckets. I will get RC212 in one of those. I hope to be able to compare wines made with the same strain down the road and see what characteristics it brings to different varietals. If I can pick out personal favorites, or if it will go right over my head.

 

[vinny]

I know what you mean. Something has to be destroyed almost to elemental compounds before it's trashed. And it helps to have a barn.

I used to be able to find THAT 6 inch wire with those jumper ends on it, and know exactly where everything I owned was. I think my hard drive is shrinking. I seem to be overwriting inventory as time goes on.

But I found my turntable.

I just can't stand to buy something I threw out.

 

[vinny]

I just spent a disappointing amount of time trying to figure out the best way to get a carboy on and off of the lazy Susan. Milk crates, buy straps...

I am only doing one. I can leave it on it....

I guess it doesn't matter how you arrive at an answer, as long as you make it there?

 

[Raptor99]

You can get a steel 12" lazy Susan ring for $10-15. Maybe make several of them, for batches undergoing sur lie?

 

[winemaker81]

I used RC212 for my Pinot noir and it turned out very nice. I guess it is not as fun for everyone else as I thought it might be to pick my yeasts.

I went with what I had listed, but I am planning some juice buckets. I will get RC212 in one of those. I hope to be able to compare wines made with the same strain down the road and see what characteristics it brings to different varietals. If I can pick out personal favorites, or if it will go right over my head.

Picking yeast is soooo subjective. I read through the description of characteristics, and on 3 different days I might make different choices.

This comes back to another of my sayings, "The enemy of Good is not Bad; the enemy is Better." Repeatedly trying to make a wine better is more likely to backfire.

So I make a choice and don't waste time looking back. Once inoculated, the decision is made and is not easily rescinded.

Long way of saying I understand why people may not participate.

 

[vinny]

You can get a steel 12" lazy Susan ring for $10-15. Maybe make several of them, for batches undergoing sur lie?

I have left wines on the lees, but never intentionally went for Sur Lie. It is going to interesting.

It will also determine how many lazy Susan's I will end up with.

 

[winemaker81]

You can get a steel 12" lazy Susan ring for $10-15. Maybe make several of them, for batches undergoing sur lie?

I'm thinking cutting 3/4" plywood into a circle large enough to be safe from tipping, and putting 4 or 5 casters under it. I'd need 1 per carboy, which in my case would be a lot of 'em. Fear of tipping is my biggest concern.

 

[vinny]

Mine is very low profile. Pretty hard to tip with only a 1/2 inch to drop. Keep it centered and there shouldn't be an issue.

My ring is pretty small the only concern for me is if it will take the weight. I will update!



The other option is having the same size base and top, then it can't go anywhere

 

[vinny]

Well in the name of science I popped out to the shop.

The lazy susan I have had a 2.5 inch ring on a 5.5 inch plate. I put a 12 inch top on it and it spins effortlessly with a full carboy. You want to be right up in the neck to eliminate sloshing. I was spinning it at 3/4 full to see if it would spin. It was a minor wobble, but it is nothing of concern with a full carboy.

The 12 inch ones I saw on amazon were rated for 800 lbs. I found 16x 4 inch rated at 100 lbs for $25 bucks. Likely $15 USD. A stack of them wouldn't take up much room, it's not much more than 1.5" high

The hole is to get to the screw holes



Mounted on scrap... Likely the finished version..

I wasn't lifting a full carboy, but it passed the water test. It spins like it has nothing on it.

 

[BigDaveK]

Fear of tipping? Are you guys thinking 100's of RPM? I'm lucky if I hit 20 RPM.