Kits verses fresh juice.

[rrussell]

I'm interested in the basic pros & cons of making wine with fresh juice verses kits. All i have done is kits so far but am considering trying something else. Mostly interested in price, quality, and difficulty differences. Thanks, Ron.

 

[Wade E]

So far Ive only done 1 fresh juice which was a Lodi Gold Chenin Blanc and was not mnpressed with it at all though I have tasted some fresh juices that were awesome like a Grenache from Lanza vineyards, this stuff was awesome!

 

[Tom]

I make alot of wine from fresh juice(30+a year) . It also depends on if you can get a supply close to you. I get juice from Ca, Italy and Chile. Kits on the other hand you will have more variety. Juice would be cheaper and you can mess it up more than kits.

So, look at all the Pro's and Con's and enjoy this great OBSESSION !

 

[jerry]

tepe; I mainly use fresh juice, CA, NY and Italy. I never used juice from Chile. I was going to buy some last week but I bought Concord instead.


I know the juice from Chile is less expensive, How is the taste?

 

[Tom]

tepe; I mainly use fresh juice, CA, NY and Italy. I never used juice from Chile. I was going to buy some last week but I bought Concord instead.


I know the juice from Chile is less expensive, How is the taste?

Less expensive than what?
The Carmenere and Malbec is GREAT! I usually get 2 buckets of each. This years prices are $45 per 6 gallon bucket.The CA I get is a buck or to less depending on what you get. The Italian is the most add 5-7 to the cost of Chilean.
Of course these are P/U prices
Now you see why I make so much.. LOL

 

[joeswine]

I think the Chilean juice is much better in the finish product than the Cal's. or the itys,,however the cal,cabs are stronger in quality,the itys are great in the Tuscan styles (amarone ,brolo styles,) it doesn,t seam to me to matter the Chilean product is just better ,no matter what type you want to make,'on the other hand the cal.whites are better in variety .than the other two and finish out clean,just by oppion......

 

[gprscuba]

I would love to try some fresh juice. Can you guys tell me how to obtain the juice?

Thanks

 

[Tom]

I would love to try some fresh juice. Can you guys tell me how to obtain the juice?

Thanks

Both myself and Joeswine have a local supplier in Hammonton NJ. You must have preordered to get any thou.
The Chilean juice and grapes due in 1st week of May.

 

[Skyhawk]

I prefer juices. They allow me to make wine throughout the year after the fresh grape and fruit season ends, and the price can be half that of a comparable quality kit.

But the main reason I like juices is because of the variety of the wine made from them. And this is likely the main disadvantage for many other people. Juices are hit-or-miss, always giving inconsistent results. The same varietal juice bought from the same retailer will vary year to year, and vineyard to vineyard, even if the juice is adjusted for balance by the supplier. In any given year with a given retailer, you may have to try a few varietal or mixed juices before you hit one that's really good. I've made some rather poor (but drinkable) wine, and sometimes great wine from juices.

Kits on the other hand are engineered to offer consistent results. You will never make a poor wine, nor make a truly great wine when the directions are carefully followed in my opinion. Good quality kits make good quality wine.

I guess I enjoy the adventure of not knowing how things are going to turn out.

 

[Wade E]

I tend to disagree with that last statement of not making a truly great wine as most kits beat out grape wines and juices consistently every year!

 

[Dean]

with just straight juice, you need to have a solid foundation of more "wine making basics", like acid testers, PH testers, Free SO2 testers, and have other stuff readily on-hand, like the chemicals for the testing, preciptated chalk, various acids (tartaric, citric, and malic), and the knowledge to use them. They offer great learning opportunities as a 1/2 step towards getting full lugs of grapes to make wine with.

However, they are not just a sprinkle on the yeast and then rack solution. If you do just that with the juice, then you end up with a crap shoot for what you are going to get. If you do all the proper testing, you can manipulate the juice to produce consistent results all the time. This is what the kit manufacturers do for you. With the juice, you do it for yourself.

After that, to move to full grapes, all you have to do is crush/destem, punchdown for reds, and press. All the rest of the procedures follow.

 

[Skyhawk]

As a lover of big, bold, full spicy reds, I really have to wonder how the average kit wine fermented, fined, degassed, and bottled exactly as per directions in 4 or 6 weeks can better a wine made by an experienced wine maker from premium fresh grapes, fermented on their original skins, a monitored MLF, and bulk aged in oak barrels. Obviously "great" is a subjective term and personal preference might be the biggest factor.

That being said, I have friends who think my rather poor (thin), young drinking wines are great and my few "great" wines that needed a minimum of 2 years in the bottle are average or poor!

 

[Wade E]

I have tried a lot of wines made from grapes and juice and most of them are much thinner then a high quality kit wine. I have had about 3 bottle that were very good but most are thin even after post fermentation tannin additions and Malo. Its funny though cause the few really good ones that I have had were actually from people who just got into wine making, not the people who have been doing this for many many years.

 

[Dean]

Skyhawk, take a premium kit wine, and barrel age it the same as you'd do a grape wine. Careful not to over-oak, and usually just age in a barrel that close to becoming neutral. The wines will benefit from micro-oxygenation and a concentrating effect from evaporation and topping up as you must do with all barrels. Both of them will become VERY different from wines bulk aged in glass. To my taste buds, both will become close to exceptional.

edit: I should also add that, for home winemakers barrel aging can be quite difficult as oak extraction happens MUCH faster in barrels under 225L, so you'd have to use the smaller barrels for a year or two before they are ready for bulk aging.

 

[Skyhawk]

But Dean, that wouldn't be following the directions. You're supposed to bottle in 6 weeks!

Just kidding. I only have one barrel (50L) and I suppose I can think about aging 2 kits in there because my fall grape wine has to come out. It's completely neutral, so I actually have to add oak in the form of beans/cubes. Because it's a tiny barrel, I still can't let the wine in there too long because it will slowly over-oxidize even when keeping it perfectly topped up.

I guess the problem is that those 2 premium kits are going to cost me nearly $300, when I can fill that barrel with fermented juice that I have on hand for about $180 (including top up supply!).

I really need another barrel.

 

[Dean]

LOL, the fact that we are all here and discuss kits and winemaking means we don't follow directions very much anymore. We all put our own personal spin on our wine making. That's what makes it all "Artisan made".

 

[Tom]

Remember,

These are recipies. If you do cook you know what I mean. A good cook starts with a regular recipe and then "tweaks" it to HIS or HER liking.

Same goes with winemaking.

Remember...
TASTE, TASTE, TASTE
and
PATIENCE,PATIENCE, PATIENCE
and you will do fine !

 

[joeswine]

wade i think kit wines make a very consistent bottle of wine theres no dought ....i ve never tasted a bad one YET,how ever when they go head to head with regular made wines and its sponsored by kit mfg. and there retailers,then that my friend is a up hill climb for any regular winemaker to handle....look at the final standings in most comps. and you,'' find kits out score regular wine hands down,,,not all the time but most of the time,,,on the other hand in local competitions tepe and i know when the predominant wine is home made or winery made and they go head to head ,kit wine don,t have much of a chance so i think it depends on ones point of view and who's judging and sponsored by,I,ve been in ten different comps. with straight wine and went up against kits and came out fair,but up against straight wines and we score very high,i myself have made and probably will make a kit or two in the future but the real (thinking outside the box is with fresh wine and fruit...just my op pion

 

[Wade E]

I dont find that true here as we have a few local comps and kits do win a lot here to. Look at the winemakers comp from last year and youll see that the ratio of kit wines to hoe grown veered more toward kits wines winning. I really dont find that fair myself as people who make wine from their own grapes go through so much more effort but thats the way its done and the way I read it kits win more medals. All that being said when I do run into ore money Id love to try my fair share as the experience and romance of doing it all from start is great like making your own fruit wine. Personally I dont fel that fresh juices are really much different then buying a kit.