Is this taking too long?

[shopkins1994]

Hi Everyone,

New to wine making and need some insight. I made (8) 6 gallon carboys filled with various wines. They are crabapple, black berry, welches grape, peach, mead, and various mixed fruit. I did the primary fermentation in September of 2011 and racked to a carboy maybe a week later. I have a electronic brix meter (put a few drops of the wine on the plate and it reads the brix for you). I started at 21.54 brix and I just measured and all of the brix readings are between 5 and 8 brix. Should these wines take this long to ferment out to 0 brix? I can see some bubbles coming up so they are fermenting. I did add yeast nutrients, etc to the recipe. I've tasted the wine and it tastes good (the higher brix tastes sweeter too).

I know this isn't much to go on for the recipes but should this wine be taking this long? Temps are 69-72 degrees. I measured the brix and then remeasured three days later and it dropped .1 on the brix. At this rate it won't be done for 10 years.

Is it possible that there is only 9 yeast cells chugging away? Should I toss in some EC1118?

Thanks,

Sam

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

What is the date on your yeast??

How long have you had the yeast nutrients??

They could be paste their shelf life.


How much nutrient did you add??

The temps are a tad low - but that isn't bad - slower fermentations will help retain the fruity esters.


It might also be struggling - consider making a starter and adding it to the must.

 

[robie]

Under normal circumstances, that's too long of a fermentation time for the temperatures you say is present. Requires some investigation.
It is always possible your brix meter is not working correctly. Get a hydrometer and measure the specific gravity of each wine and let us know what it is.

If you are using a refractometer, once fermentation starts, you have to use a special conversion table to determine the true brix, because alcohol skews the reading. It may have been dry for a long time and the bubbles you see are nothing but CO2 escaping.

Also, if the brix were still that high, the wines should taste sweet? Are they still sweet?

What yeast strain did you use? Having started with a brix lower than 22 should not be a problem for most any strain to finsih the wine dry.

 

[Arne]

If you have a brew store close, pick up a hydrometer. THey are pretty cheap and you can use it to check how dry they actually are. What I am thinking is maybe your electric meter is off a little. Arne. Robie, you hit post reply a second or two before me. lol, Arne.

 

[wjdonahue]

I agree with Arne and Robie....get a hydrometer and a test vessel to go along with it....don't just float the hdrometer in the wine.
If the reading is below 1.00 then you have no problem.
What it sounds like to me though is that fermentation stuck before all of the sugar was consumed. If this is the case, then make a starter of the same strain of yeast, raise the temp of the wine a few degrees, and see if fermentation restarts. If it doesn't, then you have another problem.
If none of this works......blttle it anyway (after srobating it since there is still residual sweetness.)

 

[shopkins1994]

Under normal circumstances, that's too long of a fermentation time for the temperatures you say is present. Requires some investigation.
It is always possible your brix meter is not working correctly. Get a hydrometer and measure the specific gravity of each wine and let us know what it is.

If you are using a refractometer, once fermentation starts, you have to use a special conversion table to determine the true brix, because alcohol skews the reading. It may have been dry for a long time and the bubbles you see are nothing but CO2 escaping.

Also, if the brix were still that high, the wines should taste sweet? Are they still sweet?

What yeast strain did you use? Having started with a brix lower than 22 should not be a problem for most any strain to finsih the wine dry.

I used different yeasts in the different wines (Red Star Champagne yeast, RC212, D47, EC1118). They are all doing the same thing. I bought the yeast from EC Kraus and used them immediately so they weren't sitting around.

The wines with higher brix definitely taste sweeter than the lower brix. Also, a few of them are crystal clear.

I am using a "Hanna Instruments HI 96811 Digital Brix Refractometer for Professional Wine Analysis". Basically you drop a few drops of *******ed water, hit a button to zero it, and then drop a few drops of wine and hit a button to read the brix.

Anyone know the brix of sugar water? Maybe I can test the meter against that?

I have one packet of EC1118 left. I guess I could mix with warm water, sugar, and toss it into one?

 

[robie]

I used different yeasts in the different wines (Red Star Champagne yeast, RC212, D47, EC1118). They are all doing the same thing. I bought the yeast from EC Kraus and used them immediately so they weren't sitting around.

The wines with higher brix definitely taste sweeter than the lower brix. Also, a few of them are crystal clear.

I am using a "Hanna Instruments HI 96811 Digital Brix Refractometer for Professional Wine Analysis". Basically you drop a few drops of *******ed water, hit a button to zero it, and then drop a few drops of wine and hit a button to read the brix.

Anyone know the brix of sugar water? Maybe I can test the meter against that?

I have one packet of EC1118 left. I guess I could mix with warm water, sugar, and toss it into one?

If they still taste sweet, they didn't finish fermenting. However, I can't imagine ALL OF THEM getting stuck.

Unless that digital refractometer is adjusting for alcohol, it is not giving you an accurate measurement of remaining Brix. However, I know nothing about that instrument, but I will guess that the readings are not right.

here is a site that will help you adjust the refractometer reading to alsohol being present:
http://www.lonesomecow.org/?page_id=638

Tell us a little more about the process. Did you add sugar to any of the wines?
Have they been at the present temperatures or higher all during this time?

I would still recommend getting a hydrometer and testing if the SG reading is at or below 1.000.

 

[shopkins1994]

If they still taste sweet, they didn't finish fermenting. However, I can't imagine ALL OF THEM getting stuck.

Unless that digital refractometer is adjusting for alcohol, it is not giving you an accurate measurement of remaining Brix. However, I know nothing about that instrument, but I will guess that the readings are not right.

here is a site that will help you adjust the refractometer reading to alsohol being present:

Tell us a little more about the process. Did you add sugar to any of the wines?
Have they been at the present temperatures or higher all during this time?

I would still recommend getting a hydrometer and testing if the SG reading is at or below 1.000.

This is crazy. So I took a reading with my refractometer and it was 5.8. Then I tested the same sample with a hydrometer and the hydrometer sank all the way to the bottom. So clearly the wine was done. I'm not sure if my meter is broken or if I need to adjust the results. The refractometer clearly states it's for wine so I can't imagine that they would put it out and rely on someone having to use a spreadsheet to adjust the results. Here's a line from their advertising that might mean something to someone:

"The HI 96811 converts the refractive index of the sample to sucrose concentration in units of percent by weight (Brix, also referred to as degrees Brix)."

Aren't there like 19 different sugars? But why would the advertise this as a way to tell the brix of wine so you know it is done. Gah I want to scream.

 

[robie]

This is crazy. So I took a reading with my refractometer and it was 5.8. Then I tested the same sample with a hydrometer and the hydrometer sank all the way to the bottom. So clearly the wine was done. I'm not sure if my meter is broken or if I need to adjust the results. The refractometer clearly states it's for wine so I can't imagine that they would put it out and rely on someone having to use a spreadsheet to adjust the results. Here's a line from their advertising that might mean something to someone:

"The HI 96811 converts the refractive index of the sample to sucrose concentration in units of percent by weight (Brix, also referred to as degrees Brix)."

Aren't there like 19 different sugars? But why would the advertise this as a way to tell the brix of wine so you know it is done. Gah I want to scream.

If the hydrometer sinks all the way past the top, the wine is definitely done.
I would think that even a digital refractometer, unless it has a way to know alcohol is present, then has a way to measure the amount of alcohol, would not be able to give you an accurate reading when alcohol is present.

Just go by your hydrometer from now on.

Glad you have it figured out, so you can move on. The wine is very dry, I suppose. It doesn't need any secondary time, so just move past that instruction to racking and stabilizing.

 

[shopkins1994]

I ordered another meter. I am hoping mine was broken. Being able to use only 2-3 drops and hit a button is way to convent to give up hope on.

 

[shopkins1994]

BTW, thanks everyone for helping me out. I would have tossed in some more yeast and hoped for the best - and waited another 5 months.

Sam

 

[Arne]

I do not have a refractometer, but I think I have read on here that they are for measuring the sweeteness of the grapes and that they work on the juice before ferment and are not accurate after fermenting. Just something that popped in and out of my fading memory. Arne.

 

[robie]

I ordered another meter. I am hoping mine was broken. Being able to use only 2-3 drops and hit a button is way to convent to give up hope on.

You can order ten more digital refractometers and you are going to get the same results each time!!!

We are trying to tell you that without utilizing a conversion table, you can't measure brix in any medium that contains alcohol. A refractometer is not meant to work in an alcoholic solution. You need nothing but a simple, cheap hydrometer.

 

[shopkins1994]

But this is sold specifically to tell how much sugar is in wine and is sold to wine makers. It literally has, "Wine Refractometer" stamped on it.

"Hanna Instruments HI 96811 Digital Brix Refractometer for Professional Wine Analysis"

Here's my problem with the spreadsheet. You need to use the starting brix. That assumes you are starting with no solids in the must and only pure juice because it needs to know the true starting number. There's no way to get the starting brix without alcohol because you have to ferment a few days before you are all liquid. I guess I could use the hydrometer but that thing isn't very accurate. I mean how can you spin it to get rid of the bubbles without making it bob up and down? Impossible.

 

[robie]

But this is sold specifically to tell how much sugar is in wine and is sold to wine makers. It literally has, "Wine Refractometer" stamped on it.

"Hanna Instruments HI 96811 Digital Brix Refractometer for Professional Wine Analysis"

Here's my problem with the spreadsheet. You need to use the starting brix. That assumes you are starting with no solids in the must and only pure juice because it needs to know the true starting number. There's no way to get the starting brix without alcohol because you have to ferment a few days before you are all liquid. I guess I could use the hydrometer but that thing isn't very accurate. I mean how can you spin it to get rid of the bubbles without making it bob up and down? Impossible.

You know, I really don't want to argue with you.
The instrument is sold to measure the amount of sugar in the grapes, that are to be made into wine. A winemaker will walk through the vineyard and collect grapes from specific areas. He will take these grapes into the lab and crush them together, so the juice and solids will mesh together and give him a representation of the vineyard. He will then take a small sample of this juice and place it in the refractometer. The refractometer will then give him the BRIX of that sample.

I guess one could say that wine does not have BRIX as such, it has residual sugar.

This instrument was never intended to tell you when your wine is dry.

I could be very wrong about this, but I do know what a refractometer is and what it is used for. Yes, I read the writeup on this and it does say it tests for Brix % "IN WINE". If that is the case, it is more than a refractometer.

Regardless, if I were you I would call the Hanna people and tell them what you are trying to do and be sure to mention that the wine contains lots of alcohol already. That way we will both know for sure.

Good luck!

 

[shopkins1994]

Ok so I bought the exact same refractometer and got it in today. I tested a sample of wine with my original refractometer and got 5.8. I then tested a sample with the second refractometer and got........wait for it.......wait for it......5.8.

What a scam. They should call it out that it is to figure out the starting brix of liquid only wine. Calling it a "Wine Refractometer" makes one think that you will use it to test wine. Not grape juice.

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[robie]

Ok so I bought the exact same refractometer and got it in today. I tested a sample of wine with my original refractometer and got 5.8. I then tested a sample with the second refractometer and got........wait for it.......wait for it......5.8.

What a scam. They should call it out that it is to figure out the starting brix of liquid only wine. Calling it a "Wine Refractometer" makes one think that you will use it to test wine. Not grape juice.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Don't get rid of that nice refractometer!!!

Actually, for making fresh/frozen wines or wine kits that have a grape pack, using a refractometer and the conversion tables has its benefits over a hydrometer.

When lots of grape particles/skins are present, it is hard to get just juice for checking SG.

Here is a nice little calulator that does both direct brix to SG conversion and also calc SG from starting Brix and current brix, when alcohol is present:

http://onebeer.net/refractometer.shtml

You can start off getting starting brix before any alcohol is produced. You can convert it to SG by using the top calculator -"Brix to Specific Gravity"

Once fermentation gets going and you want to see if the wine is dry, instead of trying to get clean juice with a hydrometer, you can again use your refractometer to get current (alcohol-altered) Brix; then use the bottom calculator - "Corrected Final Gravity & ABV% by Brix"

From what I have read, this method is very accurate and doesn't get caught up on grape particles affecting the readings.

 

[shopkins1994]

It's interesting that you mentioned this. I just bought five grape wine kits and didn't think about using it on those! It will defiantly make it easier! Thanks for posting the links.