yes Vidal ice wine juice,sold in 5 gal pails he didn,t bring in that much it was some kind of a buy where someone else was supposed to get the product but backed out at the last minute,mike pinto was toying with the idea of northern wines and took the plunge ,check out his web site,the product is n,t any different for me to work with done under cold fermentation ,i also just finished a voigner that way also,it was started at room temp then after two days it was like a volcano ,placed it into the cold box at 47 degrees and watched it work first hard then gradually slowing down,this week it stopped,i have racked it once already and Jan. first will do it again and finish it under cold storage till it clears,its very smooth and taste like a true ice wine,the mouth feel is very creamy..ill go down in Jan .and take new readings then...............