High PH and options

[chatters]

hi there,

I have some Barossa Shiraz that is showing as PH 4.01.

I know I can add tartaric at the end (I was reticent to do so first up because the grapes tasted fine as they were) if I need to and, with those kind of PH levels, I'm going to have to whack in a fair amount of sulphur at some stage.

My question is...if I segregate my wine into two batches and only carry out MLF on one batch (suppressing the other with sulphur) will it lend freshness to the wine through the retention of the malic acid?

I'm not too bothered about loss of body because of only doing partial MLF because I'll be doing a post ferment maceration on skins et al. anyway.

Welcome your thoughts by return,

cheers,

chatters

 

[stickman]

Are you saying that the PH is 4.01 before fermentation? If so, what is the brix and TA level?
The answer to you question is yes, some freshness will be preserved, but at that PH the wine will be subject to microbial attack as well as oxidation. If you want to stay on the high side of PH I would adjust down with tartaric acid to finish fermentation at around 3.8. The MLF will be difficult to suppress unless the alcohol content is very high, which I'm assuming is the case since the grapes are from Barossa and the PH is so high.

 

[JohnT]

I am not a big fan of malic acid. It is rather biting and (to me) masks any mellowness the wine might have.

I agree with everything that stickman said. I would mlf the whole batch and then adjust the PH by using tartaric acid.

 

[chatters]

Are you saying that the PH is 4.01 before fermentation? If so, what is the brix and TA level?
The answer to you question is yes, some freshness will be preserved, but at that PH the wine will be subject to microbial attack as well as oxidation. If you want to stay on the high side of PH I would adjust down with tartaric acid to finish fermentation at around 3.8. The MLF will be difficult to suppress unless the alcohol content is very high, which I'm assuming is the case since the grapes are from Barossa and the PH is so high.

Hi there,
Don't have the TA (very much a garage affair) but the Brix was about 24.8. Yup, PH 4.01 before fermentation. Duly noted on the MLF - I'm hoping the combination of high alcohol and sulphur will help to take care of that. I think I'll have to go with the Tartaric regardless.
cheers,
chatters

 

[chatters]

I am not a big fan of malic acid. It is rather biting and (to me) masks any mellowness the wine might have.

I agree with everything that stickman said. I would mlf the whole batch and then adjust the PH by using tartaric acid.

Malic doesn't bother me that much - mind you, in my defence, i've drunk plenty of Beaujolais
cheers,
chatters

 

[Masbustelo]

How are you measuring pH so accurately and yet can't determine your TA ?

 

[Johnd]

Hi there,
Don't have the TA (very much a garage affair) but the Brix was about 24.8. Yup, PH 4.01 before fermentation. Duly noted on the MLF - I'm hoping the combination of high alcohol and sulphur will help to take care of that. I think I'll have to go with the Tartaric regardless.
cheers,
chatters

When you are finished with alcoholic and malolactic fermentation, assuming you have no intention of determining what your TA is, and your Ph remains high, consider this:

Use tartaric acid to get your Ph down to at least the 3.6 range, this will increase the effectiveness of your sulfite levels as well as help to stabilize your wine. You will probably find that it will taste flat or flabby at Ph 4.1, acid will help that. Use your taste buds to help you in this endeavor, save a small sample before you add acid, compare the pre and post additions. Go slow and get it where you want it.

Not absolute rule, but the chemistry would indicate that with a higher Ph, your TA would be low, again not an absolute, but a good bet.

 

[oregonwineguy]

It's probably too late now but I would've done the tartaric addition pre-AF. Other than that I agree with everything said up until this point.