General Question

[joecopp]

I'm new to this forum, hope the following is acceptable --- a friend of mine received a couple of bottles of red wine from her husband's work colleague. The colleague explained that he makes wine and had just bottled this particular batch. When my friend and her husband sampled the wine, she describes it as "fizzy" and is asking my help in determining what may be going on (I have made wine kits for 10 years).
To me, this sounds like the wine has not completed its fermentation, but was hoping to hear from someone who has more expertise than I. Anyone who has any thoughts about this, would appreciate hearing from you.
Cheers!

 

[Johnd]

I'm new to this forum, hope the following is acceptable --- a friend of mine received a couple of bottles of red wine from her husband's work colleague. The colleague explained that he makes wine and had just bottled this particular batch. When my friend and her husband sampled the wine, she describes it as "fizzy" and is asking my help in determining what may be going on (I have made wine kits for 10 years).
To me, this sounds like the wine has not completed its fermentation, but was hoping to hear from someone who has more expertise than I. Anyone who has any thoughts about this, would appreciate hearing from you.
Cheers!

It's typically one of four things:

1. the wine wasn't finished fermenting and fermented more in the bottle, leaving carbonation behind
2. the wine was finished fermenting, but the winemaker added sugar to sweeten it, without sorbate, and it started to ferment again in the bottle
3. the wine underwent malolactic fermentation in the bottle (not normally a kit wine problem)
4. the wine was not sufficiently degassed prior to bottling, leaving behind CO2 in the finished wine

If you could find out the timeline from onset of fermentation through bottling and whether or not the wine was sweetened before bottling, you can hone in on the probably cause.... The most typical problem is number 4, as the others may cause corks to pop out.

 

[joecopp]

Thanks very much for the prompt reply. Another question ........... if it is #4, what would you recommend I advise my friend? Thanks again!

 

[Johnd]

Thanks very much for the prompt reply. Another question ........... if it is #4, what would you recommend I advise my friend? Thanks again!

Now we move cautiously into the world of degassing.......a much discussed topic here, feel free to search for it and you'll find more info than you probably want. At any rate, there are a few ways to degas wine.

1. Bulk age it for months until it naturally dissipates on its own, my preferred method as my wines are typically not bottled within a year anyway
2. Mechanical agitation, usually in the form of some type of wine whipping device attached to a drill, some folks do well with this, others struggle
3. Creating a vacuum in the headspace of your (airtight) storage vessel, or using a vacuum pump to rack your wine several times. Many different devices are used in this method, vacuvin pumps, brake bleeders, foodsaver vacuum devices, A/C vacuum pumps, All-In-One Wine pump. My personal preference when I vacuum degas is an A/C vacuum pump, I can degas a 6 gallon carboy of wine in a few short minutes. Lots of folks here use and swear by the All-In-One, it's inventor is a member here, @vacuumpumpman

Many use a combination of the above methods, and they are all more effective when your wine temps are in the mid-70's. In the end, each of us figures out what we like to do and what works best for us.

 

[joecopp]

you've been very helpful, thank you!

 

[mhopkins]

John D, you write: my preferred method as my wines are typically not bottled within a year anyway."
Would you please elaborate on your use of sulfites (when? how much?) using this approach with red wines? Thanks! Mark

 

[Johnd]

John D, you write: my preferred method as my wines are typically not bottled within a year anyway."
Would you please elaborate on your use of sulfites (when? how much?) using this approach with red wines? Thanks! Mark

Certainly. My sulfite dosing is determined every few months by testing and adding the required amount to bring the free sulfite level up to the recommended level based upon the wine pH, .5 molecular level for reds, .8 for whites. In all truth, my wines in glass sometimes go 4-5 months without checking, especially during hunting season.

Without testing capabilities, use the rule of thumb, in a carboy, of 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons, every 3 months.

Sulfite is depleted much more quickly in a barrel, I check and dose those more frequently.

 

[mhopkins]

Certainly. My sulfite dosing is determined every few months by testing and adding the required amount to bring the free sulfite level up to the recommended level based upon the wine pH, .5 molecular level for reds, .8 for whites. In all truth, my wines in glass sometimes go 4-5 months without checking, especially during hunting season.

Without testing capabilities, use the rule of thumb, in a carboy, of 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons, every 3 months.

Sulfite is depleted much more quickly in a barrel, I check and dose those more frequently.

Very helpful ... thanks! Mark

 

[mainshipfred]

Certainly. My sulfite dosing is determined every few months by testing and adding the required amount to bring the free sulfite level up to the recommended level based upon the wine pH, .5 molecular level for reds, .8 for whites. In all truth, my wines in glass sometimes go 4-5 months without checking, especially during hunting season.

Without testing capabilities, use the rule of thumb, in a carboy, of 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons, every 3 months.

Sulfite is depleted much more quickly in a barrel, I check and dose those more frequently.

All my wines are +/- 3.5 ph. I try to keep my S02 somewhere around 20-25 ppm but recently work has made me neglect my readings and some got down to 14-16 ppm. These levels I assume are from fermentation since I was trying to let them go through MLF and did not add any sulfite yet. I am talking fall reds so they are not that old. Problem?

 

[Johnd]

All my wines are +/- 3.5 ph. I try to keep my S02 somewhere around 20-25 ppm but recently work has made me neglect my readings and some got down to 14-16 ppm. These levels I assume are from fermentation since I was trying to let them go through MLF and did not add any sulfite yet. I am talking fall reds so they are not that old. Problem?

Not sure which thing you are asking is a problem.........As far as your target SO2 for wines in the 3.5 range, at 25 you're right on track, view the chart link below:

https://winelandia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/so2_chart.jpg

You should target the SO2 level indicated in the chart, based upon pH, and wine color, reds should use the .6 molecular level line (I noticed my typo above at .5 instead of .6, sorry), and whites should use the .8 molecular level line to read the SO2 level.

It's only natural for the free SO2 levels to decrease over time as some of the free sulfite becomes bound, that's why we try to keep up with them regularly to prevent the levels from getting too low, making wine susceptible to oxidation and microbial activity. I've never measured free SO2 prior to adding sulfite and don't add any to my grapes before fermenting, but fermentation does produce some level of sulfites in your wine, most MLB will tolerate low levels. Did that answer your question(s)?

 

[mainshipfred]

Not sure which thing you are asking is a problem.........As far as your target SO2 for wines in the 3.5 range, at 25 you're right on track, view the chart link below:

https://winelandia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/so2_chart.jpg

You should target the SO2 level indicated in the chart, based upon pH, and wine color, reds should use the .6 molecular level line (I noticed my typo above at .5 instead of .6, sorry), and whites should use the .8 molecular level line to read the SO2 level.

It's only natural for the free SO2 levels to decrease over time as some of the free sulfite becomes bound, that's why we try to keep up with them regularly to prevent the levels from getting too low, making wine susceptible to oxidation and microbial activity. I've never measured free SO2 prior to adding sulfite and don't add any to my grapes before fermenting, but fermentation does produce some level of sulfites in your wine, most MLB will tolerate low levels. Did that answer your question(s)?

Possibly, yes. I was wondering if the lower then recommended levels for a short time would cause any cause for alarm. I'm thinking not.

 

[Johnd]

Possibly, yes. I was wondering if the lower then recommended levels for a short time would cause any cause for alarm. I'm thinking not.

I don't think so Fred, mine have dropped even lower, nearly to 0 while in barrels when I get behind in my chores, but I try not to make it a habit.