First planting / many questions

[shrewsbury]

Thanks for reading!

I have many questions but I will try to make this as short as possible. I never thought I would ever be growing anything, but circumstances and life has lead me to the desire to have small vineyard and orchard. (long story)

This spring will be my first year of planting. I have done a fair amount of research, but I would love some opinions, suggestions, and/or advice.

I have 4 rows of 30 posts each. I have ordered and will be planting 116 Vidal Blanc vines.

My questions are;

should I wire the posts first, then plant?
should I plant, then wire?
what are the pros and cons of either?
I was thinking to wire earlier in the season then hand digging the vines in when they came.
on the other hand I could wait and use my augur to plant then wire later in the season.
Any input is appreciated.

I plan on ordering the bulk of my stuff from Orchard Valley, are there better places to get my supplies from?

I plan on having a total of 15-20 rows and will do 2 other types of grapes and around 100 apple trees. It will take a few years to get there, but I am in no hurry.
I have attached a picture of what I have manged to get done so far.

 

[3274mike]

Plant first and then wire use your auger reduce your work load, you probably want grow tube also.I'm sure others will respond but that's what I would do your post look nice also

 

[grapeman]

How far apart are your posts? It looks like you plan on having a post for each vine and the number of rows/posts and vines seems to confirm that. With that said, it is way overkill for either grapes or an orchard. In California and some other places they put a post for each vine, but they are much smaller when they do. Often you put a post like you have for every 3 to 6 vines depending on spacing. You then use smaller posts such as bamboo or light metal post for each vine. The posts get tied to the wire to make the whole thing more sturdy. There are thousands of acres of orchard right by my home that use a trellis similar to grapes now with high density plantings. They plant at least ten trees between posts. What you have will work, it just really increases costs big time per acre.

As far as wiring before or after planting- neither is right or wrong. It is easier planting and then wiring because you can use an auger or even shoveling is easier. Both ways work though.

 

[salcoco]

it is best to plant and then wire. Use the auger you will have better plant results. we had both auger and hand dug hole. the augured plants started and have done better than the hand dug plants. Just make sure the wall of the hole is roughed up to allow for root penetration and spread the roots in the hole.
You will need grow tubes get the 36 inch variety. this will allow you to spray for weeds without injury to plants plus provide a protective environment for the grapes to grow.
I am not sure from the picture how afar apart your poles are but we normally used a 6ft 3/4 inch bamboo pole per plant. placing a wire at 42 inches allowed attachment of the bamboo pole to the wire and then attachment of grow tube to the bamboo pole. I imagine you can do the same with the posts you have installed. Normal spacing on poles is every 20 ft and grapes at 8 ft. the first plant is 4 ft from end of row dimensions all work out so that you get three plant per 20 ft space.
I would buy two inch staples with barbs for wire attachment. also there used to be a plastic wire equal to 12 gauge and 9 gauge galvanized wire as to strength. it was real easy to install.
the greatest problem is the end posts. the will be taking all of the load of the row and the wines will pull them out of the ground if you do not have them sufficiently
fortified. research high tensile strength fencing installation procedure to see the options for end post installation. Tractor Supply Co had a good tutorial on their web site. Orchard Supply also probably has some recommendations.
I would keep in mind that you want this trellis to be a one time installation that will last as long as your grapes a long long time. build it better that a fort.
one more thing place a wire at about 12 inche for a drip irrigation system.

 

[grapeman]

Sal has some good info for you here in general. One thing I would like to point out is that a 20 foot post spacing will result in less than 8 foot vine spacing. That would be 24 feet between posts. I like that post spacing as you can plant either 4 vines at 6 feet or 3 vines at 8 feet, depending on vine vigor. Let me explain this a bit. For 8 foot spacing, you do begin 4 feet from the end, then 8+ 8 and then another 4 feet from the post. That repeats all the way to the other end of the row so recapping - 4+8+8+4 = 24 feet

|4+8+8+4|4+8+8+4|4+8+8+4| etc

Like Sal says no matter how you construct it make it strong.

In general I have always planted the vines first even before setting poles, but everybody finds what works best for themselves.

 

[Sage]

Dig the holes first, then put up at least the bottom wire, then plant. By doing this, you can use the wire as a guide to have the plants exactly in line under it.

A little late, but I went down the row with a digger and dug all holes in line. Both the plant and post holes. Made it a lot easier.

 

[shrewsbury]

Thanks for the replies.

I have them spaced at 8 foot, both between posts and rows.
I know it is a bit overkill, but we like the look.

Please keep the help coming, all of it is appreciated.

Thanks again,

Jay

 

[grapeman]

Here is one reason why I plant first and then set the posts

Makes for nice straight rows and we plant around 800 vines per hour.
I have also hand dug bare root vines and also used an auger on a bobcat to dig holes. They all work. Just pay attention to details as you plant and whatever method you use will work.