Mosti Mondiale Fermentation

[donking2010]

Hello All,


I've started my first kit on sunday. And now have some of my first questions about wine making. It's very interesting watching the temperature go up and down, from 66 degrees and a ramp up to 80 degrees. My question is:


1. Is it important to keep the temp constant I've seen 73 degrees is a good temp to have. Would a brew belt help out with this? Just wondering how others are maintaining a constant temp.


2. If not what is going on in the wine during different temperatures?


and,


I stopped by my local wine/beer store here in Medford Oregon. And the guy there said that there are 4 different alcohols being produced. Each at different temperatures. Does anyone have a chart at to what each alcohol is, and the temp that it is produced at? If not maybe this will be my first challenge to come up with a chart for the forum!

Thanks again
Brian

 

[Wade E]

Is this the ambient temp in the room as I dont believe that your must is fluctuating like this. Do you have a thermometer in there? At 60* you are possibly chancing a stuck fermentation. 73* is a good temp to keep it at and a brew belt is good at those temps.Im no scientist so maybe another can jump in on those alc.s.

 

[donking2010]

These temps are taken from the must with a floating thermometer sitting in there at all times. The thermometer is floating on the top, is this normal? Not vertical more horizontal.


Here's what thetemp is doing.


Day 1 70 deg - crusting on top
Day 2 66 deg - crust disipating/ gone to just slight foam
Day 3 80 deg - little foam bubbling
Day 4 74 deg - bubbling little foam from bubblesEdited by: donking2010

 

[Wade E]

Okay, the way i see it is that day 1 was no fermentation so it dropped down in temp until fermentation started on day 3 to bring it up to 80* with the help of some sort of heater close by Im assuming as t wouldnt be that vigorous quite yet in my opinion and then when the heater shutdown it has gone back to 74* Do you have this very close to a heat source? A 68 temp variance in 6 gallons in the time frame of 1 day at this stage of the process seams very weird to me and find it very hard to believe it would drop down that fast.

Edited by: wade

 

[donking2010]

Well Well you are very good.


There is a heater in the room. Which is probably why it went down to 66 (that was at night and the heater was off) then I freaked so put on the heat for a few hours then we saw the 80. I'm really not to worried about the variance in temp. I'm mainly just wondering about the:


"And the guy there said that there are 4 different alcohols being produced. Each at different temperatures. Does anyone have a chart at to what each alcohol is, and the temp that it is produced at?"


Do you have any thoughts about the alcohol produced? I'm wondering for just the sack of wondering at the moment.


Thanks

 

[grapeman]

I don't know all the particulars of the types, but there is ethyl, diethy,and methyl alcohol and I don't know the other kind. You don't need to worry about this. I believe the person you refer to was thinking about the distillation process, where they can be seperated out at different temperatures. Keep your wine fermenting in the desired range and you will produce a good wine with the correct type alcohol for safe consumption.

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

It does sound like a reference to the distillation process, The different alcohols vaporize at various temperatures.


Acetone 56.5C (134F)
Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)


Ethyl acetate 77.1C (171F)
Ethanol 78C (172F)


2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)


1-Propanol 97C (207F)


Water 100C (212F)


Butanol 116C (241F)


Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)


Furfural 161C (322F)

 

[grapeman]

With a little further research I came up with the following condensation.


Ethanol- is the major alcohol produced under normal winemaking procedures. It has multiple effects on taste and mouth feel. It enhances sweetness through its own sweetness. It can increase the intensity of bitterness while decreasing the tannin astringency. Produced at normal fermentation temperatures. This is the desired alcohol.


Methanol- is not a major constituent of wine and doesn't affect flavor development. Under naormal practices remains in very low volumes and is not toxic at those levels. It's limited production is due to break down of pectins.


Higher (Fusel)Alcohols


Alcohols with more than 2 carbon atoms are considered higher alcohols.
They include propanol, isobutyl,isoamyl, and phenethyl alcohols.They all have long chemical names. There are also diols,polyols and sugar alcohols.


Thier production in the fermentation process is influenced by fermentation temperatures, presence of oxygen, presence of suspended solids and chaptalization(addition of sugars). Conversely prefermentation clarification and the presence of sulfur dioxide and low fermentation temperatures supress the formationof higher alcohols. They all contribute to a strong pungent odor and at higher levels can overpower desired fragrances.




I cannot find exact temperatures at which each of these is produced, but it should be noted that basically a healthy fermentation at normal temperatures produces a more desireable wine with less higher alcohols.

 

[PeterZ]

Under normal fermentation, with sucrose or glucose as the sugar being fermented, the vast majority of the alcohol produced is ethanol. All of the other alcohols you mention are very very minor constituents.

 

[PolishWineP]

You science guys are going to drive me to drink!

Actually, that's all be quite informational and I never really thought about all of that before.

Thank you!

 

[donking2010]

Yes this is very informative.


So the guy at my local store had mentioned 4 different types of alcohol in wine. Reading over your posts it looks like theres only one ethanol. The others seem to be created at much higher temperatures (134F - 322F) 134F being acetone, I don't think that anyone wants to be drinking that in there wine. It would probably be a good high for some meth head

! ButI think i'll shy away from that.


So in the range of say 65F - 85F we are just getting ethanol in the wine. Am I correct is saying this?


So, if I could control the temperature to be a consistant 70F would that create a better tasting wine than say a consistant 76F?

 

[Dean]

Those temps are just the distillation temperatures. They have nothing to do with the creation of alcohol, but rather the extraction of alcohols from solution. Ethanol is made by any given yeast strain within their temperature range.

One extreme is lager yeast. These yeast work on lagering beer at temps from 40 to 55F. The upper extreme is EC-1118 (which is included in most kits) and it can ferment from 58F to almost 90F. Each creates ethanol in abundance. If you strain either yeast, you will create feusels, and if you get infections, you will create methanol, acetone, etc.

 

[uavwmn]

OMW, my head hurts from soooo much science!! I am getting flash backs of high school!!!!!


Anyone have a bottle of Amarrone to send me for my woes?